List of REs based on Hardware Synths (Not ReFills!)

[challism]

Casio MT40
https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... evolution/

EDIT: Oops, I realize now that this is a refill. I saw it in the shop under new releases, and thought it was an RE.

[bitley]

I'm sure that if someone started a thread in ReasonTalk's Kitchen about sausages, Patrick would post there saying you should buy his ReFill because it contains bacon.

Ah, you knew it. It actually does. Looking forward to your order!

[Neo]

I'm sure that if someone started a thread in ReasonTalk's Kitchen about sausages, Patrick would post there saying you should buy his ReFill because it contains bacon.

Ah, you knew it. It actually does. Looking forward to your order!

You've been acknowledged here and on face-book many times.
My mistake, i should of clearly mentioned "List of REs based on Hardware Synths - Not ReFills"

[bitley]

I posted before the thread was changed to "not refills" which is a very dumb way of seeing things imho. Some of the world's most interesting synths are sample based, you won't find oscillators in a Wavestation, or a 1080, or a Triton or Fantom etc etc. While DSP is pretty cool it's not the answer to everything.

[joeyluck]

But REs can be sample-based. Where the developer can either sample patches or sample the waveforms and use DSP to emulate the rest.

[bitley]

To a degree yes, but I would wonder why this necessarily would be a 'sexier' solution. It's like people have stopped discovering the fantastic tools we already have - such as the combinator. Apparently it's all about RE-inventing the wheel now huh.

[yeahright31]

Bitley -To a degree yes, but I would wonder why this necessarily would be a 'sexier' solution. It's like people have stopped discovering the fantastic tools we already have - such as the combinator. Apparently it's all about RE-inventing the wheel now huh.


I still use Refills and I will forever, there are some RE that really hog cpu to a point I can't use them for anymore then 1 sound, at times I struggle with even that. Then I did a test got to about 7 combinators before the strain ( I then turned off some fx inside the combinator that I didn't need and all was good.

Refills will always be a part of my music this I know for sure. A couple of Refills - the only trouble I run into is the whole - Sounds missing message.
But 98 percent run without worry.

[yeahright31]

I did buy the Fairlight refill, but since a space of time, now I see there is a WBF Refill - Way Beyond.
Guess i'm at a stage now too where I have bought many refills, I looked at what refills I don't really use and I copied them to my external hard drive to make room for RE and other important things I'm into.

I set myself a challenge each 2 months to use particular refills , so they all get used in the end.
I mix and match a few to find what compliments the other.
But I know ultimately my goal ahead is to get more use out of the MS20 and that's requires more sampling.

[electrochoc (PRX-A)]

I posted before the thread was changed to "not refills" which is a very dumb way of seeing things imho. Some of the world's most interesting synths are sample based, you won't find oscillators in a Wavestation, or a 1080, or a Triton or Fantom etc etc. While DSP is pretty cool it's not the answer to everything.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree here. A full synth emulation is, in my opinion, way more interesting than a pack of samples extracted from one synth. The reason is to me obvious: with a synth emulator, you are free to tweak exactly a synth according to your tastes and needs, while, with a samples pack, you are stuck with the only sounds its designer has choosen for his pack. In other terms, you're stuck with the design decisions of someone else, which are necessarily limited when compared with the possibilities of the original machine or software.

This said, the nature of the emulated machine can, in some cases, make a sample pack valuable, if not as valuable as the hardware. Most obvious example that comes to mind: the TR-707, which is itself an hardware pack of samples! Sample-based or wavetable-based synths can be, I presume, used to make sample packs that will be near of the original hardware in terms of possibilities. But when it comes to something like the DX-7, any sample pack can only represent a very small fraction of the sounds the machine can make. In this kind of cases, a full emulation piece of software like a Rack Extension is the only way to get the same range of sound possibilities than the one offered by the original hardware.

[Neo]

I posted before the thread was changed to "not refills" which is a very dumb way of seeing things imho. Some of the world's most interesting synths are sample based, you won't find oscillators in a Wavestation, or a 1080, or a Triton or Fantom etc etc. While DSP is pretty cool it's not the answer to everything.

You missed the point on facebook and your missing the point again here. Your comments are now moot to me considering your little very dumb way of seeing things comment. This question was specifically for REs only.

[Neo]

I posted before the thread was changed to "not refills" which is a very dumb way of seeing things imho. Some of the world's most interesting synths are sample based, you won't find oscillators in a Wavestation, or a 1080, or a Triton or Fantom etc etc. While DSP is pretty cool it's not the answer to everything.

You missed the point on facebook and you're missing the point again here. Your comments are now moot to me considering your little "very dumb way of seeing things" comment. This question was specifically for REs only. I have no problems with ReFills and i already noticed you started another thread promoting your refill (which i paid for). The original question was asked by a random person on face-book; I thought id invite that person to join here and enjoy this wonderful and friendly environment aswell.

[bitley]

If you think anyone can ever sell sounds without talking about it, good luck with that.

I have explained how I work with samples and it is in a very unlimited way far from how you guys see it. I often practically build synthesizers with the NNXT. If you HAVE my sounds you must start exploring them please. Tweak them!

[spacefarmer]

Ok Patrick, I can understand that You are interested in selling Your products and I know that they are very well sounding.
We all know, how far it's possible to tweak sounds with nnxt and combinator and You can do a lot of nice things with Your refills.
BUT PLEASE: I think You don't believe seriously that nnxt offers real interesting and complex method of synthesis.
I owned all of the hardwaresyths You told from, like wavestation, 01W and the rolands and so on.
The only real intersting one based on samples, but not only, was the K2xxx-family from kurzweil with VAST-Synthesis.
EX5 (FDSP) and SY99 (RCM), both Yamaha, also did a good job in tweaking samples in realtime.
And there are some VST- Plugs we all know, that are able to do.
But they all did more than only filtering and modulate pitch, amp etc.
Real sampletweaking, granularsynthesis and physicalmodelling are methods we don't really have in Reason and Your products are not able to substitute them.
Your fairlightrefills are great and Your WBS offers awesome moments of synclaviersound, but not the synthesis with their possibilities and that's the big difference for me as an very old synthfreak.

[tibah]

If you think anyone can ever sell sounds without talking about it, good luck with that.

There a times for promotion and there a times for a thread called "REs based on hardware synths", where promotion (and leading the whole topic into a whole different discussion) may be inappropriate. No matter if the topic had to be changed into containing "no refills!", the title was already clear enough, so was the sub-forum.

Your products are well-known around this community, along with some love spread and free promotion by happy customers.

Please keep this topic friendly and back on track - REs based on hardware.

Cheers.

[bitley]

Well you are wrong and right at the same time. Let's talk then about the Polysix, by Korg, who made the real Polysix. Why do you think there is such a demand for the old vintage analog Polysix? Because it looks cool? Yes, why not. But no. There is a huge difference in sound. And if you want this real Polysix sound in Reason, you must sample it. The Rack Extension looks good, and it's very fun to use. But it does not sound like a Polysix. Period. Having that said, it probably sounds better than the Polysix in many aspects, but what people want from the vintage one is what makes it a living form of species. The detuning, the randomness, the noise, the squelch and jumps or whatever one would say in the filters and envelopes. The smell of old smoke and component perfume it oozes with when switched on.

[spacefarmer]

Like always it is a question of personal interest.
For me the best possible flexibility in tweaking sounds from the basics is more important than the
perfect but in the end static and limited reproduction of soundcharacter.
That's the reason why I would like to see more not refillbased instruments for experimental sounddesign.
PolysixRE is not my favorite, it's not perfect and not the synth I think about when I'm interested in more complex analoglike sound, but for the things that it is able to do, it's the more flexible choice for me instead of refills.
So let's talk about hardwaresimulating RE here and open a new thread for highqualityrefills.

[bitley]

Absolutely, I agree.

Just as a little thing though; these are the demos I made a few days ago to show you guys how I sample the analog stuff; not how-to but the results of it. As (those of you interested) can see, these sounds are fully tweakable. I could have added LFOs, changed envelopes etc but I guess they at least help me describe what I mean with useful synth sampling.

http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7494502

Now, I'm back to my EPS 16+ video demo shooting for Youtube

[Neo]

Absolutely, I agree.

Just as a little thing though; these are the demos I made a few days ago to show you guys how I sample the analog stuff; not how-to but the results of it. As (those of you interested) can see, these sounds are fully tweakable. I could have added LFOs, changed envelopes etc but I guess they at least help me describe what I mean with useful synth sampling.

http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7494502

Now, I'm back to my EPS 16+ video demo shooting for Youtube

Congratulations on winning the hi-jacking award. Id like to read your reaction if one just randomly disrespected one of your threads.

[Lov2sing]

Not to take sides but anything digital in your computer is basically sampled and regardless if it is a refill or not it ends up being the same. It is digital generated therefore all the sounds end up about the same. The way I figure it we either have a PC or a Mac and unless you bought a better sound card it is all relative. I get RE's due to the fact I like having the look of stuff but I buy refills due to the fact no one is making hardly anything I want like the Yamaha EX5, SY77, VL7 or the Kurzweil K2000, K2600, or 250. Until someone makes those in RE's then I will continue buying refills. Last thing Bitley turn all your Refills into RE's like Jiggery has done; which I hope he makes the Arp 2600 Blue Meanie, and this becomes a non issue.

[eusti]

Not to take sides but anything digital in your computer is basically sampled and regardless if it is a refill or not it ends up being the same.

Mmh... I think there is a difference here... I could agree if the statement was "anything in your computer is digital", but I think a sample is very different from an oscillator (even a modeled one)... To me the first one is basically playing back a recorded sound that might be processed a bit, the later is generated.

D.

[spacefarmer]

First: Bitleys Refills are great, no question and I love JPs samplebased REs - I've got most of them.
But like Eusti wrote, there is a difference and more.
And yes, if You want the sound of these synths and there is no special RE, sampling is able to catch the character of a moment and modulate it in a limited way.
But if You know these digital synths, you also know, that You need hundreds or more samples of the interaction of only one sound and it won't be enough.
I made sounds with RCM with interaction between the two AFM and the two AWM elements that create evolving sounds that never repeated and it was possible to tweak it in realtime in a lot of different ways.
There are much more possibilities than classical FM offers and if You want to use and change these in realtime, no sampler is able to do that in the moment and I am talking about Digitalsynths.
And to stay with the "FM" of DX7, I never heard samplesets, that are able to catch only one sound in his whole dimension of velocity and operatorinteraction.
So You can get a perfect "picture" of one moment with sampling, but me, I want this whole dimension of interactionpossibilities of Synthesis and then I can think about PX7 or Zero or better all of them, if possible, but not about Refills.
And what do You think about a digital PM-Synth like VL7 that has to be tweaked in realtime to show its power or what's about experimental and "realtimemultimodulated" VAST-sounds?

[Kenni]

This isn't a discussion on the differences between RE's and Refills, and to be quite frank, you can't compare the two bearing the topic in mind (unless it's an RE that "just" plays back samples). One generates the 1's and 0's before outputting, the other plays back pre-made 1's and 0's.

Like tibah said, Refill, RE, and interested parties alike needs to stop focusing solely on special interest in this thread and get back on track.

[bitley]

Well gentlemen, my refills certainly act like synthesizers: you can create any sound with them. They have just as much synthesis power as a K2000, JD800 or SY99, modulation?! You have the entire modulation in the program to play with. Perfectly looped samples means nothing is frozen in time, start anywhere, modulate anything. Create any sound, just do it! WBF R2 comes with 7,000 waveforms, more than any hardware synth ever released. It's PPG and Fairlight combined... your imagination is the limit.

[Lov2sing]

Not to take sides but anything digital in your computer is basically sampled and regardless if it is a refill or not it ends up being the same.

Mmh... I think there is a difference here... I could agree if the statement was "anything in your computer is digital", but I think a sample is very different from an oscillator (even a modeled one)... To me the first one is basically playing back a recorded sound that might be processed a bit, the later is generated.

D.

I would agree if we were talking about machines but we dealing with C+C code. It's all victual.

[-008']

Well gentlemen, my refills certainly act like synthesizers: you can create any sound with them. They have just as much synthesis power as a K2000, JD800 or SY99, modulation?! You have the entire modulation in the program to play with. Perfectly looped samples means nothing is frozen in time, start anywhere, modulate anything. Create any sound, just do it! WBF R2 comes with 7,000 waveforms, more than any hardware synth ever released. It's PPG and Fairlight combined... your imagination is the limit.

Again!?'?
I remember going through this at PUF with you.

Samples of and sampling (synths) is completely inferior to having the "living" synth, be it hardware or software.

Even if your refills come from hardware, they are completely STATIC samples. You are incapable of sampling a synth at every single: velocity, parameter tweak, knob turn, etc.

I would rather have the Poly6 RE, than a Poly6 ReFill made with original hardware...by anyone, yourself included. Let's see...few MB synth re-creation/emulation, or an 8 GB refill that is based on only static samples, and then completely relies on native devices or RE for its filter, fx, automation, etc.. Cmon man!

You must understand, No one on earth argues against the usefullness or quality of your refills and work! Nobody! You're great your fills are great but this is apples and oranges man!