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ebop wrote:Well f**k me, how did you squeeze those sounds out of ABL3 Benedict? Is this some kind of sorcery? I think I need to think outside the box a bit. Nice track man.

Thanks

All I can say right now is that it is all ABL3 OSC + Filters (and overdrives).

Well this is going to be unique.. Pads and textures are a bit tricky

ebop wrote:Are people 'recording their own' instruments for tracks? I've read the rules 10 times to see if I'm missing something but basically we can't use 'any' other synth for pads or use sampled pianos (nnxt). I know this is the case but I just don't want to believe it as it means I'm out as I don't own a piano or any instruments for that matter to flesh a tune out. Really like ABL3 though, it's fricken awesome!

I really believe the nnxt piano patch isnt a problem in the track composition for this contest. Why allow to record a piano but cant use a sample. Recording a piano is sampling a piano.....

But maybe Noël can clarify if I'm already disqualified....

I don't understand guys, it has always been where you cannot use any instruments except for the challenge synth, drums, and acoustic sounds recorded through your own microphone. This is because the challenge needs to have some limitations in order to make it more interesting and... challenging, which in this case is seeing how far the community can take one synth or refill. It got everybody involved in their own pieces as well as having fun listening to other people's. The live instrument rule was created for people who wanted to sing initially, but spread to other types of musicians like guitar players in order to be fair. The deal was that if you had the instrument to play, you could play it as an accent or compliment to the challenge synth, but that if you did not have enough focus on the synth you would not win. When you open the door to other synths or prerecorded instruments then you open the door to thousands of other sounds and make it harder for the judges to determine where the challenge synth is actually being used.

What you cannot use:

• Any instrument samples (you can use drums samples and samples of ABL3)

Which includes a prerecorded nnxt piano.


So, you can still find a creative way to use a sound that is within the rules. Don't just give up.

Yeah, I understand the point of the comp and Benedict has proven something to me. Ok, so the way I read it, it's ok to stick a whole heap of effects on ABL3 to create a weird noise (pad'ish sound), bounce a small snippet to sample, and then reload it in nnxt to create chords?

It does make you think when faced with such a limited instrument; how can I use not only for what it is obviously good at but how else could I use those features to point to something else.

Remember that a piano sample in an NN-XT is not a piano. We use it to point to a piano. In my piece the M1 piano is simply pointers that while sounding nothing like an M1 (which sounded nothing like a piano) have enough cues that anyone familiar wit early 90's House will recreate the sound in their heads.



BTW I would be interested in Noel's take on making sample waves from ABL3 and then using them in NN-XT but I assumed it would essentially be outside the rules as then the NN is really another synth.

That was my initial assumption to, NNXT was off the table, but it's worth asking. I'm only after sounds to fit in the background with the focus still being well and truely on ABL3.

Don't be boring   as with a little CV fun you can create other sounds. Once you get started then you start to see other options. Listening this morning I think of other things I could have done to expand the palette further.

Ha, it's not about being boring, it's more ignorance with sound design. But it's probably as good a time as any to experiment and learn how a 'bass' synth can create a range of sounds. I hear ya. But the results will probably be an ear sore

Hi Everyone,
The rules permit the use of the NN-XT (or NN-19) for participants that want to sample sounds from the ABL3.  However, participants may not use the NN-XT (or NN-19) to use other synth samples unless they are acoustic or synth based drum samples.

We've also allowed participants to bounce the showcased synth to audio stems if their cpu can't handle too many devices.  However, in these cases we've requested the original Reason song file to verify the sampled sounds or bounced audio tracks came from the showcased synth.
I hope this clarifies the rules.  Please let us know how we can rewrite the current rules to make this clearer on future competitions.
Thank you!

Hi Noel

I thought the rules were always clear that it is the Instrument (ABL3) alone and no other synth at all. Drama this time is you gave us a synth with extreme limits so strings etc aren't immediately on the palette - but I managed.

For sheer technicality; is it permissible to sample a single cycle of ABL3 and use that as an OSC in an NN Sampler? To me that would seem to be bending the rules a bit far as the resulting NN is really the instrument and therefore we aren't actually hearing ABL3 anymore.

Obviously that would make it really easy for everyone else if you said yes but I'm not changing my entry as I am squarely within the rules and proud of what I did (even tho I don't expect to win).

Benedict wrote:Hi Noel

I thought the rules were always clear that it is the Instrument (ABL3) alone and no other synth at all. Drama this time is you gave us a synth with extreme limits so strings etc aren't immediately on the palette - but I managed.

For sheer technicality; is it permissible to sample a single cycle of ABL3 and use that as an OSC in an NN Sampler? To me that would seem to be bending the rules a bit far as the resulting NN is really the instrument and therefore we aren't actually hearing ABL3 anymore.

Obviously that would make it really easy for everyone else if you said yes but I'm not changing my entry as I am squarely within the rules and proud of what I did (even tho I don't expect to win).

Hi Benedict, 
I don't think you need to change anything about your entry, which beautifully illustrates ABL3's capabilities in the hands of a skilled sound designer. :s0826:  
So let's take another look at what the judges will be looking for:
The judging will be based off the following criteria:

• Showcasing of the ABL3
• Arrangement and songwriting
• Originality or creativity
• Mixing and engineering

A key point here is "showcasing of the ABL3".  If someone were to sample the ABL3, load into the NN-XT and drastically change it's sound, then we don't consider that showcasing the ABL3.

Thanks Noel. I know I was being pedantic.

I balked initially myself when I thought only of the limits of a beep-box. Then I heard Mr Cheese's entry and the other sounds in his mix. It suddenly dawned on me how I could do some of that whilst still only using ABL3 and few CVs. If I made a new track I would have even more clever ideas. But I am happy with the blatantly retro feel and melodic thing I always do. By the end I didn't feel too limited at all. Sure I wouldn't want to emulate a whole orchestra but a dedicated soul could go a fair way.

I have to say what while TB-303 has never really been my thing this release is a lovely instrument that captures so much of the TB and even has that bounce (which I am a sucker for).

Lunesis wrote:I don't understand guys, it has always been where you cannot use any instruments except for the challenge synth, drums, and acoustic sounds recorded through your own microphone. This is because the challenge needs to have some limitations in order to make it more interesting and... challenging, which in this case is seeing how far the community can take one synth or refill. It got everybody involved in their own pieces as well as having fun listening to other people's. The live instrument rule was created for people who wanted to sing initially, but spread to other types of musicians like guitar players in order to be fair. The deal was that if you had the instrument to play, you could play it as an accent or compliment to the challenge synth, but that if you did not have enough focus on the synth you would not win. When you open the door to other synths or prerecorded instruments then you open the door to thousands of other sounds and make it harder for the judges to determine where the challenge synth is actually being used.

What you cannot use:

    Any instrument samples (you can use drums samples and samples of ABL3)

Which includes a prerecorded nnxt piano.


So, you can still find a creative way to use a sound that is within the rules. Don't just give up.

I can see why singers would be allowed to record there lyrics. But why is it fair to let other musicians record there own instruments? I don't have the option to record a real piano to compliment my song.
And in my book recording an instrument is like sampling an instrument. I don't see the difference.
I've allways put the focus solely on the Rack Extension in these competitions. Like the last comp with the Redominator. It's my personal opinion that, even though people were making very good tracks, the focus sadly was not on the Rack Extension per se.
Please don't get me wrong. I always have a lot of fun entering these competitions.

Noel G. wrote:
Hi Everyone,

The rules permit the use of the NN-XT (or NN-19) for participants that want to sample sounds from the ABL3.  However, participants may not use the NN-XT (or NN-19) to use other synth samples unless they are acoustic or synth based drum samples.

We've also allowed participants to bounce the showcased synth to audio stems if their cpu can't handle too many devices.  However, in these cases we've requested the original Reason song file to verify the sampled sounds or bounced audio tracks came from the showcased synth.

I hope this clarifies the rules.  Please let us know how we can rewrite the current rules to make this clearer on future competitions.

Thank you!

If I understand correctly from the above text you say that acoustic samples are allowed. Piano is an acoustic instrument. This would contradict your rules:

What you may not use in your song:

• Any synth that is not ABL3 (including combinators featuring ABL3 that include any other synth)
• Any instrument samples (you can use drums samples and samples of ABL3)
• Any programs outside of Reason that generate synth sounds
• Any copyrighted material

Why would you allow a recorded piano/bass/guitar but not use the Reason Piano's Refill?

Why would you allow a recorded piano/bass/guitar but not use the Reason Piano's Refill?

Because recording it yourself actually requires some effort.

I think the rules are fine.

I wasn't expecting to submit a track but after hearing Benedict's super creative take on the 303 I starting playing around with it.  I had a blast and came up with this song in two marathon sessions.

All of the sounds I was coming up with were pretty dark so I wrote some really dark lyrics to go along with it.  The song is called Under the Dirt.  I'm especially fond of the "guitar" sound I came up with.  I'm dedicating that to Benedict.  

[url=http://I wasn't expecting to submit a track but after hearing Benedict's super creative take on the 303 I starting playing around with it. I had a blast and came up with this song in two marathon sessions.https//soundcloud.com/somedesperateglory/under-the-dirt]

[/url]Lyrics:

Under the Dirt
I wake up in the morning
A long night without much rest
For a few minutes I feel
What I have long suppressed
Early mornings are the worst
Time to reflect and replay
When the alarm rings
I’m too tired to face the day
My wounds are not healing
I just can't shake this hurt
My scars won't fade
Until I'm under the dirt
I feel like a failure
I did as much as I could
I may explode
If I hear the word “should”
Lately I've been feeling
Like I've got a hole in my head
Who cares about a broken heart
When you're already dead?

Did I hear my name? 

My, that is a cheery song.

Thanks for the dedication

Noel G. wrote: ....The rules permit the use of the NN-XT (or NN-19) for participants that want to sample sounds from the ABL3.  However, participants may not use the NN-XT (or NN-19) to use other synth samples unless they are acoustic or synth based drum samples.
...

FATCheese wrote:
If I understand correctly from the above text you say that acoustic samples are allowed. Piano is an acoustic instrument. 

No, you can't simply lop a sentence in half with bold and take the half with the meaning you like.  The sentence says "participants may not use the NN-XT (or NN-19) to use other synth samples unless they are acoustic or synth based drum samples."  I.e., only use only samples of drums - either acoustic or synth-based - are allowed.  

The people who lean hard on non-contest instruments never win these things anyway.  

Noel G. wrote: ....The rules permit the use of the NN-XT (or NN-19) for participants that want to sample sounds from the ABL3.  However, participants may not use the NN-XT (or NN-19) to use other synth samples unless they are acoustic or synth based drum samples.
...

FATCheese wrote:
If I understand correctly from the above text you say that acoustic samples are allowed. Piano is an acoustic instrument. 

mbfrancis wrote: No, you can't simply lop a sentence in half with bold and take the half with the meaning you like.  The sentence says "participants may not use the NN-XT (or NN-19) to use other synth samples

mbfrancis wrote: unless they are acoustic or synth based drum samples

mbfrancis wrote:."  I.e., only use only samples of

mbfrancis wrote:drums

mbfrancis wrote: - either acoustic or synth-based - are allowed.  

The people who lean hard on non-contest instruments never win these things anyway.  

Yes. You are correct. I've read it wrong. :s0959:
But I don't lean hard on non contest instruments...

I just don't see why a A-List RE is out of the question and an own recorded guitar not.
There's no way to verify if the person played it itself or indeed used a sample from wherever.

I really don't want to make a fuzz about it. But it really seems weird to me.

Noel G. wrote: ....The rules permit the use of the NN-XT (or NN-19) for participants that want to sample sounds from the ABL3.  However, participants may not use the NN-XT (or NN-19) to use other synth samples unless they are acoustic or synth based drum samples.
...

FATCheese wrote:
If I understand correctly from the above text you say that acoustic samples are allowed. Piano is an acoustic instrument. 

mbfrancis wrote: No, you can't simply lop a sentence in half with bold and take the half with the meaning you like.  The sentence says "participants may not use the NN-XT (or NN-19) to use other synth samples

mbfrancis wrote: unless they are acoustic or synth based drum samples

mbfrancis wrote:."  I.e., only use only samples of

mbfrancis wrote:drums

mbfrancis wrote: - either acoustic or synth-based - are allowed.  

The people who lean hard on non-contest instruments never win these things anyway.  

FATCheese wrote:
Yes. You are correct. I've read it wrong. :s0959:
But I don't lean hard on non contest instruments...

I just don't see why a A-List RE is out of the question and an own recorded guitar not.
There's no way to verify if the person played it itself or indeed used a sample from wherever.

I really don't want to make a fuzz about it. But it really seems weird to me.

From the rules:

All entrants, when requested, must be prepared to provide evidence that the rules have been adhered to. This includes providing a copy of the Reason song file to verify that only the ABL3 was used for synth sounds.

It seems all questions have been answered by other community members (thank you!).  If not, please feel free to let me know.

Thanks Noel for clarifying my earlier query.

I did a retake on my entry for this competition and used exclusively the ABL3 except for the drums ofcourse!

It's a bit weird now! :s0225:

a new challenge ^^
atm a bit busy but may be next week i'll made a song with this ABL3

Here is my attempt. Tried to hark back to the old acid house days, with a modern twist!

https://soundcloud.com/mayzonone/mayzon ... -challenge

It was great fun making this, I really love this synth!

Peace