ReasonTalk.com

If there is no signal into the Carve ducking input, then it should behave as passthrough right? But it does not, I get terrible terrible sound artifacts.  Is this the same problem people have had with Carve?

Here is an example: the same loop played 4 times. The first two times with Carve on bypass, and the next two time Carve activated(but with no signal on the ducking input)



It's a simple setup where a bus channel with no input channels connected is connected to the carve REF in.
I lowpass filtered the whole thing a bit to make the artifacts stick out.
If I remove the REF In cables, the artifacts disappear.

Hey,

I´ve reported a similar issue in the past to Ochen K. you can read his reply here: http://www.reasontalk.com/post/carve-is ... 1286450806

Shokstar wrote:Hey,

I´ve reported a similar issue in the past to Ochen K. you can read his reply here: http://www.reasontalk.com/post/carve-is ... 1286450806

Thank's...but I see no reply from Ochen about that?
It really seems to be a showstopper defect.

EDIT: I was able to reproduce this in a very simple setup: One Subtractor with the Bass guitar patch, and a Carve in the channel strip insert. And one dummy subtractor with no notes, connected from Parallel output to Carve REF in. Carve AMT set to zero, so it should behave like bypass.
Just play multi note chords (8-10 notes) using a MIDI keyboard with that Bass guitar patch; play hard and loud. Note that there is no clipping according to meters, but terrible sound artifacts occur.

Here is an attached zip file with the reason file that has the problem.

jappe wrote:Here is an attached zip file with the reason file that has the problem.

Tried this one, and there's a lot of distortion there, which disappears when Carve is bypassed. Seems to me the Carve is very sensitive to the input level of the main signal, but for some reason only when a ref cable is connected.
When I reduce the output from the bass chord main signal, the distortion goes away and I can hear no difference between on and bypass. I admit my hearing is a bit poor in the higher frequencies though. 

If you reduce the input to Carve, and compensate after the output, will this remove the artifacts you hear as well?
Or am I way off the issue here.  :frown:

I found some kind of a workaround. Just place a MClass Maximzer before the SIG Input and the distortion is gone. Seems that Carve cannot handle signals above 0db.

I have the same issue. Carve would be amazing if it behaved as it should, but it doesn't. It's a useless device I'm afraid.
It has been reported and ignored.
Not much you can do about that.

@Hamu & Satyr: Yes it seems Carve is clipping the signal even when far away from max level.
I sent a message to Ochen from the product support page of Carve with a link to this thread.

undoubtedly ochen k did some fantastic devices and i got all of them, but i am also unhappy that he seems not to take care of bugs that are reported. microtone has also a input/output bug that spits out wrong notes. if half of the notes from the chromatic scales are played wrong (for example playing a D instead of a C) or some notes are not even playing, i would call that a serious bug. maybe someone who has microtune can look into this file (maybe i am mistaken and i did something wrong).
 

 

@Hamu & Satyr: Yes it seems Carve is clipping the signal even when far away from max level.
 

Well to be honest the signal that goes into carve is 5dbfs. You can see that if you put for example the selig gain right after the subtractor. if you bring it down to 0 the distortion is gone. Or in other words, i think the distortion on carve occurs if a signal exceeds 12 on the reason PEAK meter scale.

satyr32 wrote:  

@Hamu & Satyr: Yes it seems Carve is clipping the signal even when far away from max level.
 

satyr32 wrote:
Well to be honest the signal that goes into carve is 5dbfs. You can see that if you put for example the selig gain right after the subtractor. if you bring it down to 0 the distortion is gone. Or in other words, i think the distortion on carve occurs if a signal exceeds 12 on the reason PEAK meter scale.

True that the signal peaks are in the overhead area,but they should be allowed to I think? If I put a reverb instead of carve and set it to fully dry then we would have the same scenario - and the reverb doesnt clip the signal.
Basically I would expect Carve to have zero impact on signal level when there is zero Ref in.
if Carve by design works another way than the expected,then I think a clip level indicator on the signal in is must-have.

Edit: The PEAK level is at -10dB on Big Meter when I bypass Carve,so Its in the allowed headroom interval.

satyr32 wrote: undoubtedly ochen k did some fantastic devices and i got all of them, but i am also unhappy that he seems not to take care of bugs that are reported. microtone has also a input/output bug that spits out wrong notes. if half of the notes from the chromatic scales are played wrong (for example playing a D instead of a C) or some notes are not even playing, i would call that a serious bug. maybe someone who has microtune can look into this file (maybe i am mistaken and i did something wrong).

I don't own the Microtone, so it's difficult for me to test. Maybe there is a similar problem in Microtone as there is in the CV Tuner; E.g. if both B and C are allowed as outputs (e.g. C Major), entering (from a Matrix) a sequence of A3-B3-C4-D4 in will give the output A3-C4-B3-D4. There are other similar hickups as well. I've sent two notes to Ochen about this, first one over a year ago, but I never got any feedback... :frown:

I used to include the CV Tuner in most of my setups, but now I use AutoTheory or Step instead, when I need to align notes to scales. It's a pity, because CV Tuner was so neat and easy to use - too easy apparently...  :bawl:

I don't own the Microtone, so it's difficult for me to test. Maybe there is a similar problem in Microtone as there is in the CV Tuner; E.g. if both B and C are allowed as outputs (e.g. C Major), entering (from a Matrix) a sequence of A3-B3-C4-D4 in will give the output A3-C4-B3-D4. There are other similar hickups as well. I've sent two notes to Ochen about this, first one over a year ago, but I never got any feedback... :frown:

I used to include the CV Tuner in most of my setups, but now I use AutoTheory or Step instead, when I need to align notes to scales. It's a pity, because CV Tuner was so neat and easy to use - too easy apparently...  :bawl:



Hmm...that makes me wonder how long I should wait for reply on the note I sent him yesterday. Did you send it through his "product Support Page" or by mail directly?

hamu, i did not know about the cv tuner bug. good that i am aware of it now.
in microtune it is even worse, via matrix

C   C#  D    D#  E    F   F#  G   G#  A    A#  B    C results in:
B   C    C#  D    D#  F   F#  G   X    G#  A    A#  C

(X = no note played)
so, 4 note are correct, 8 are shifted, and 1 is not played at all

Hey folks. Thanks for the info.
Just as a heads up, I don’t always check these forums that often. I do around launches, but between launches, less so. The best way to let me know about bugs is via email to reinfo@ochenk.com. All emails sent there get fed into a queue. Like the forums, I’m on that queue all the time around launches, but less so between launches. But all emails to that address do eventually get read. That’s not necessarily true for messages directed to me on this forum or on Facebook. Just fyi.
As to the Carve issue, I think I’ve fixed it. Jappe, the file was super helpful. Others have tried to describe it, or have made less helpful videos, but if I can’t recreate it, I can’t fix it. Your file had what I needed. Thanks.
If anyone would like a license to test the fixed version, just post your Prop user ID and I’ll give you a beta license. It would be great if folks could confirm that it’s fixed before I submit it to Props for review.
I wasn’t aware of the Microtune issue. (I was about the CVTuner issue, and have a fix ready.) I’ll take a look at it.
Ochen K.
 

ochenk wrote: Hey folks. Thanks for the info.
Just as a heads up, I don’t always check these forums that often. I do around launches, but between launches, less so. The best way to let me know about bugs is via email to reinfo@ochenk.com. All emails sent there get fed into a queue. Like the forums, I’m on that queue all the time around launches, but less so between launches. But all emails to that address do eventually get read. That’s not necessarily true for messages directed to me on this forum or on Facebook. Just fyi.
As to the Carve issue, I think I’ve fixed it. Jappe, the file was super helpful. Others have tried to describe it, or have made less helpful videos, but if I can’t recreate it, I can’t fix it. Your file had what I needed. Thanks.
If anyone would like a license to test the fixed version, just post your Prop user ID and I’ll give you a beta license. It would be great if folks could confirm that it’s fixed before I submit it to Props for review.
I wasn’t aware of the Microtune issue. (I was about the CVTuner issue, and have a fix ready.) I’ll take a look at it.
Ochen K.
 

Very professional/proper response from Ochen K. Hope you got it figured out. I already own Carve but will be looking forward to the update.

thanks ochen k for looking into it.

cool… waiting for the micro tune update… bought but not tried yet… damn… must use the racks I buy lol

ochenk wrote: Hey folks. Thanks for the info.
Just as a heads up, I don’t always check these forums that often. I do around launches, but between launches, less so. The best way to let me know about bugs is via email to reinfo@ochenk.com. All emails sent there get fed into a queue. Like the forums, I’m on that queue all the time around launches, but less so between launches. But all emails to that address do eventually get read. That’s not necessarily true for messages directed to me on this forum or on Facebook. Just fyi.
As to the Carve issue, I think I’ve fixed it. Jappe, the file was super helpful. Others have tried to describe it, or have made less helpful videos, but if I can’t recreate it, I can’t fix it. Your file had what I needed. Thanks.
If anyone would like a license to test the fixed version, just post your Prop user ID and I’ll give you a beta license. It would be great if folks could confirm that it’s fixed before I submit it to Props for review.
I wasn’t aware of the Microtune issue. (I was about the CVTuner issue, and have a fix ready.) I’ll take a look at it.
Ochen K.
 

Since I've got your attention, I hope (but have not heard back) that you got my detailed bug report around launch time and have had a chance to work things out. If not PLEASE contact me ASAP.

ochenk wrote: Hey folks. Thanks for the info.
Just as a heads up, I don’t always check these forums that often. I do around launches, but between launches, less so. The best way to let me know about bugs is via email to reinfo@ochenk.com. All emails sent there get fed into a queue. Like the forums, I’m on that queue all the time around launches, but less so between launches. But all emails to that address do eventually get read. That’s not necessarily true for messages directed to me on this forum or on Facebook. Just fyi.
As to the Carve issue, I think I’ve fixed it. Jappe, the file was super helpful. Others have tried to describe it, or have made less helpful videos, but if I can’t recreate it, I can’t fix it. Your file had what I needed. Thanks.
If anyone would like a license to test the fixed version, just post your Prop user ID and I’ll give you a beta license. It would be great if folks could confirm that it’s fixed before I submit it to Props for review.
I wasn’t aware of the Microtune issue. (I was about the CVTuner issue, and have a fix ready.) I’ll take a look at it.
Ochen K.
 

Thank's Ochen for quick response!

ochenk wrote:I was [aware] about the CVTuner issue, and have a fix ready.
Ochen K.

Thanks Ochen! Looking forward to this eventual update!  :s0826:

Yeah! Great! Thanks, Ochen!

D.

Well, no one seems to be volunteering to test it. Jappe, since you reported it and have the test files, can I send you a license and have you verify that it's fixed?

ochenk wrote:Well, no one seems to be volunteering to test it.

Eh?!  Sent you a PM hours ago

[Edit] Just spotted your PM reply...understood!

ochenk wrote:Well, no one seems to be volunteering to test it. Jappe, since you reported it and have the test files, can I send you a license and have you verify that it's fixed?

Hello,sure I can test it.