Some Reflections on Antidote

[Klaus-Morlock]

By way of explanation: I was a Reason user from versions 1-3, and absolutely loved it. But after a while I started yearning for audio tracks, and for a slightly wider range of synthesizers. So, around 2005 or so I switched to Cubase, and still make occasional use of the DAW to this day. But three things brought me back home to Reason: 1. Audio recording; 2. Thor; 3. The SSL mixer; and 4. Rack extensions. When I rejoined with Reason 7, after basically a 10-year absence, I couldn't believe how much the program had matured. It quite simply blew me away, and brought back all the workflow that I liked from the early days, but with these great new features.

And so to the subject of my post. I've used many many VSTs over the years, but I have never EVER encountered a synth that screams "Play me! Tweak me!" in the way that Antidote does. The onboard effects are worthy of being stand-alone devices, and there's just something about that mixer — front and center with those beautiful faders — that makes me want to delve and mould and shape. It's a stunning sounding synth, but more than that, its ease of use, for me, places it way ahead of the likes of Predator. The latter is a fantastic synth, with a hugely generous bank of presets, but I struggle with the interface: red and black, with tiny knobs. I feel largely the same about Vector's GUI, although Rob Papen's Albino, which I used a TON back in the Cubase days, would be a welcome addition in the rack.

In my opinion, and for the sort of music that I produce, Antidote is the best soft synth available. And that includes every single VST out there. It was obviously designed by people who are not only coding geniuses, but also musicians. What a brilliant piece of kit.

[Tumble]

Antidote is the best soft synth available.

No, Dune 2 is

[chimp_spanner]

Dune 2 is probably my favourite synth, followed very closely by Antidote, which has Dune 2 in its "DNA" anyway I think the only thing missing from it is the ability to do FM (unless I'm missing something!). Otherwise I agree with you; it's an extremely versatile and inspiring synth. The unison engine is so lush!

[Spryx]

Welcome back!

I have also been a long time Reason user (since v1.0...I was in high school then ). Antidote is a very good synth. I frequently compare it to my Virus TI...and the sonic character of the two is very similar in some regards. I am only able to get the really wide trance pads with Antidote. Thor is great too, but the gui sometimes turns me off. Predator might be what you are looking for if you want something similar to albino. RPs new synths sound excellent too.

[selig]

Antidote is an interesting beast IMO, and is right up there with Thor (and sometimes ahead of it!). I turn to Antidote for SO much of my basic synth work these days, and yet, I'm still not sold on it's GUI. It's more the internal architecture and the end results that keep me coming back to Antidote!

In contrast to others, I feel the mixer is a waste of space (I hardly ever need to adjust it except for Sub Osc level on occasion). The envelopes are not positioned any differently than the main filter controls (I would prefer linear sliders for envelopes), and their maximum rate/time is not long enough for some effects. The LFO buttons are confusing both visually (are they on or off?) and their naming conventions (why would you add a feature like key sync, but label the control as 'Free Run' - Free Run is the natural state when there is NO sync, not a feature to turn on/off!!! - the actual feature implement is called Key Sync. \rant). And I've not often used the built in FX or ARP, as I can do just about the same thing (or often better) with external FX with little additional time spent.

But therein lies the paradox - despite all the things I would change about Antidote, I STILL find it my #1 "go to" synth in Reason for the basic bread and butter sounds that I love. If anything, this shows me how little the GUI and feature set actually matters to me, because while there are other synths with more features to my liking, and other synths that create a more inviting environment, in the end I STILL gravitate back to Antidote for most basic synth work - bravo Synapse of giving me a tool I can really use despite not loving everything about it - impressive!

[eXode]

The LFO buttons are confusing both visually (are they on or off?) and their naming conventions (why would you add a feature like key sync, but label the control as 'Free Run' - Free Run is the natural state when there is NO sync, not a feature to turn on/off!!! - the actual feature implement is called Key Sync. \rant). And I've not often used the built in FX or ARP, as I can do just about the same thing (or often better) with external FX with little additional time spent.

I think the correct term would perhaps be "Retrig" or Key Retrig" but yeah I understand what you mean. Free Run should be the default state and then you can enable "retrig" for those ARP Odyseey style patches.

I think that you miss out by not using the built in FX, unless you're going for a dry sound or need a shorter room-like reverb. I find that the FX are of very good quality.

But therein lies the paradox - despite all the things I would change about Antidote, I STILL find it my #1 "go to" synth in Reason for the basic bread and butter sounds that I love. If anything, this shows me how little the GUI and feature set actually matters to me, because while there are other synths with more features to my liking, and other synths that create a more inviting environment, in the end I STILL gravitate back to Antidote for most basic synth work - bravo Synapse of giving me a tool I can really use despite not loving everything about it - impressive!

I find time and again that Antidote has this fantastic core sound. The way the filter(s) sound when you drive the resonance near self-oscillation is magical to me, and I haven't found a synth in Reason (yet) that can reproduce that sound in the same way.

[dvdrtldg]

I try not to let an unfriendly or ugly UI get in the way of the sound, but yeah there's something about Antidote that makes me want to pull it into the rack ahead of fiddly twiddly synths like Predator & Vecto, as cool as they are. Same goes for Ivoks and Viking, you just feel like getting your (virtual) hands on them

[chimp_spanner]

UI is a big part of it man. I mean a good looking synth can get you excited before you've played a note, and I know that sounds kinda shallow but it's just all part of the psychology of it isn't it? Something about a well designed synth convinces you that there's a little something else going on behind all the make-pretend vents and panels. Silly because it's all just code.

[fceramic]

For me the price, the uninspiring GUI and the lack of a second filter is what keeps me from getting it. It also feels like a limited version of Dune 2.
I do wish Synapse will update it at some point.

[Klaus-Morlock]

In contrast to others, I feel the mixer is a waste of space (I hardly ever need to adjust it except for Sub Osc level on occasion)

Hmm. I find myself tweaking these sliders quite a bit, and love the feel of dialing in the sub oscillators. Mind you, I'd never refer to myself as a serious programmer: running things through crazy effects until you can't tell what they are is more my thing. By the way, Selig, if you were responsible for the "tape" setting on Audiomatic, all I can say is thank you. Plus, your de-esser is so, so useful. Cheers, Morlock.

[eXode]

For me the price, the uninspiring GUI and the lack of a second filter is what keeps me away from getting it. It also feels like a limited version of Dune 2. I do wish Synapse will update it at some point.

I think it's a great instrument in it's own right, but that doesn't prevent me for wishing for Antidote V2 with at least 3 oscillators and 2 filters though.

I'd also love to see BP and HP modes added to the Sallen-Key filter, as well as 4-Pole BP, and HP filters.

[alex]

I think it's a great instrument in it's own right, but that doesn't prevent me for wishing for Antidote V2 with at least 3 oscillators and 2 filters though.

I'd also love to see BP and HP modes added to the Sallen-Key filter, as well as 4-Pole BP, and HP filters.

Which reminds me "the absence" of a notch filter... Reese sounds anyone?

@eXode: thank you for your "Delicate Guitar". Is one of the best patches ever...

[eXode]

I think it's a great instrument in it's own right, but that doesn't prevent me for wishing for Antidote V2 with at least 3 oscillators and 2 filters though.

I'd also love to see BP and HP modes added to the Sallen-Key filter, as well as 4-Pole BP, and HP filters.

Which reminds me "the absence" of a notch filter... Reese sounds anyone?

@eXode: thank you for your "Delicate Guitar". Is one of the best patches ever...

Cheers. I'm glad you like it.

Regarding notch, it's not the same obviously but you can experiment with the phaser for some notch type sounds (see attachment fo ran example). Playing with the spread and feedback in particular yields different results.

[pjeudy]

For me the price, the uninspiring GUI and the lack of a second filter is what keeps me away from getting it.

For me the price is justified by the Sound.The UI doesn't bother me but I would like 2 more OSC one more filter,more filter types a better ARP... a deeper Mod Matrix a wave shaper, More LFO wave types *Noise*,Allow OSC to Modulate other OSC properties *FM*

[selig]

The LFO buttons are confusing both visually (are they on or off?) and their naming conventions (why would you add a feature like key sync, but label the control as 'Free Run' - Free Run is the natural state when there is NO sync, not a feature to turn on/off!!! - the actual feature implement is called Key Sync. \rant). And I've not often used the built in FX or ARP, as I can do just about the same thing (or often better) with external FX with little additional time spent.

I think the correct term would perhaps be "Retrig" or Key Retrig" but yeah I understand what you mean. Free Run should be the default state and then you can enable "retrig" for those ARP Odyseey style patches.

I think that you miss out by not using the built in FX, unless you're going for a dry sound or need a shorter room-like reverb. I find that the FX are of very good quality.
.

I DO use the built in FX, just not very often, and find I can get more specific results using other gear. For example, if I need delays with more specific tone shaping/wobble etc. I'll go for The Echo, if I need an infinite type reverb or convolution, I'll go for RV7000, if I need more sophisticated saturation I'll go for Scream or Pulverizer, etc. Having simple built in FX is great for hardware or DAWs with little modular capabilities, but less necessary in an app like Reason IMO.

I'm just pointing out that you can easily add post FX but you can never add oscillator panning, sallen key polyphonic filters, exponential polyphonic envelopes, etc. I'm a "modular" guy at heart, and the whole philosophy of Reason is that it allows adding these FX just as easily as using the built in FX - but there's no way to add polyphonic elements, so those MUST be a part of the synth!

[selig]

UI is a big part of it man. I mean a good looking synth can get you excited before you've played a note, and I know that sounds kinda shallow but it's just all part of the psychology of it isn't it? Something about a well designed synth convinces you that there's a little something else going on behind all the make-pretend vents and panels. Silly because it's all just code.

Same for me, which is why I HAVE to give such kudos to Synapse for building a synth with what I consider to be an "average" UI, and yet it has become my #1 "go to" synth! THAT is the amazing part, IMO!!!

[selig]

In contrast to others, I feel the mixer is a waste of space (I hardly ever need to adjust it except for Sub Osc level on occasion)

Hmm. I find myself tweaking these sliders quite a bit, and love the feel of dialing in the sub oscillators. Mind you, I'd never refer to myself as a serious programmer: running things through crazy effects until you can't tell what they are is more my thing. By the way, Selig, if you were responsible for the "tape" setting on Audiomatic, all I can say is thank you. Plus, your de-esser is so, so useful. Cheers, Morlock.

I judge an on screen control by how often you use it, how big it is, whether it is close to other related controls, and whether the on-screen resolution matches what you use. For the Sub Osc control, it is in a good position, but is quite large for what it does and how often I actually need to adjust it in a patch tweaking session, and I find most of the useful resolution is at the bottom half of the control. If you expanded the bottom half of the travel to cover the entire slider range you could make the control half the current size. IF you made all the mixer controls half the current size you would not loose any control resolution.

And in conclusion, if you did ALL of the above there would be PLENTY of room for that second filter that seems to have gone awol…

[ivar]

For me the price, the uninspiring GUI and the lack of a second filter is what keeps me from getting it. It also feels like a limited version of Dune 2.
I do wish Synapse will update it at some point.

hi
i recently talked to synapse. they cannot port dune 2 to reason, because of limitations in the RE format. but they are open to do so, when PH will advance the RE format.
regards
ivar

[pjeudy]

Another thing ..for ANTIDOTE ..independent octave for the sub OSC

[riemac]

Antidote and Zero are the two best synths in reason.
What I am really missing in Antidote is the following:

- Volume adjustments for the DYAD oscillators
- A separat noise oscillator, so you can still use the both main oscillators for other things
- the different detuning modes from Dune 2
- Two layers like in Sylenth1

I hope Synapse will considere this in an update.

[JNeffLind]

For me personally Antidote ranks behind Thor and Predator. But that's still a vote of confidence. I put those three (Thor, Predator, Antidote) far ahead of anything else, including perennial frontrunners like Parsec.

[Rook]

I love Antidote; my favorite soft synth. It just sounds so freakin' good and it's a perfect balance of simple and powerful. Really looking forward to getting a Nektar controller soon to get more hands on with it.

[Resonator]

In contrast to others, I feel the mixer is a waste of space (I hardly ever need to adjust it except for Sub Osc level on occasion)

Hmm. I find myself tweaking these sliders quite a bit, and love the feel of dialing in the sub oscillators. Mind you, I'd never refer to myself as a serious programmer: running things through crazy effects until you can't tell what they are is more my thing. By the way, Selig, if you were responsible for the "tape" setting on Audiomatic, all I can say is thank you. Plus, your de-esser is so, so useful. Cheers, Morlock.

I judge an on screen control by how often you use it, how big it is, whether it is close to other related controls, and whether the on-screen resolution matches what you use. For the Sub Osc control, it is in a good position, but is quite large for what it does and how often I actually need to adjust it in a patch tweaking session, and I find most of the useful resolution is at the bottom half of the control. If you expanded the bottom half of the travel to cover the entire slider range you could make the control half the current size. IF you made all the mixer controls half the current size you would not loose any control resolution.

And in conclusion, if you did ALL of the above there would be PLENTY of room for that second filter that seems to have gone awol…

I agree entirely.

[eXode]

And in conclusion, if you did ALL of the above there would be PLENTY of room for that second filter that seems to have gone awol…

There is already room. Antidote is about 8U so there's about 1U available in height which could allow for a dual filter section.

I actually have a sketch in my mind where Antidote has three oscillators (second is roughly where the "mixer" is now, third where second is), a dual filter section, and then a smaller "mixer" for oscillators about where the filter is situated today (right corner, near bottom). I might just throw a mockup together to better illustrate.

[eXode]

Replaced mockup with this instead.