Any news?

[Sinistereo]

Here's a theory:

Maybe the developers are neglecting full time development for reason because there's just not enough sales to cover for that development time spent.

I can think of 3 main reasons for that.

1. The reason SDK is to restrictive
2. The quality of the RE's just aren't good enough
3. A lot of what RE's do are already covered by reasons native devices, therefore reducing the need

My guess is option 3 mainly, but it's likely a combination of them all. I say this without being a RE developer myself, mind you.

I think you're spot on with 1 and 3. Personally, I think the quality of the many REs I own are superb, especially for the price I paid. Synapse, JP, and Props (for example) make devices that are easy to use, create quality results, and have been effectively bug-free.

I write code to support my primary job. I have a computer science degree and programming used to be my primary profession. I'm no stranger to difficult coding platforms. About a year ago, I signed up with Props as a developer with the intention to create a couple of effect REs using neuroacoustic wavelet processing techniques that my research lab has developed over the years.

I abandoned that effort. My impression of the RE SDK is that it is unwieldy, overly complex, incredibly limited, and requires specialty knowledge of multiple languages and techniques that are not extensible to other platforms. Coding a VST isn't simple, but doesn't require the developer to learn completely new techniques.Given the potential market size, for me and other developers, rack extension development just doesn't make sense.

Developers like JP, Blamsoft, ScuzzyEye, Lectric, and Ochen (and others!) amaze me with their level of passion and artistry for this platform. Reason's flexibility to create new devices and effects within the rack (much easier and more intuitive than Max for Live or Reaktor) makes it my favorite sound design tool, if not my favorite DAW. I just wish that the platform was more accessible to traditional developers.

[Yonatan]

A word on SYNTHS...

I am not among those users that get all excited to see a new Synth in the PH Shop. Many sound so alike. But I understand an enthusiast may see it otherwise. What I do would love to see, is synths of another kind. What interests me the most as home producer belongs mostly to 2 categories.
a) Vintage and analogue replicats of older synths. Sound with a lot of warmth and personality.
b) Top of the line physical modelling synths that uses the most sophisticated science to create instrument behaviours as if almost more real than in real world. As well as the ability to use and combine these modulations into totally new instrument combinations. Acoustic modelling synthesis of the new time. You have string instrument modelling of all kinds and drums, voices etc...the whole range! As if you could build whatever. Building of its resonance body, its frequency coloring with overtone spectrum and what kind of environment(space/room) etc. Offcourse this would be quite expensive, but wow how it would open up another universe!

Vintage synths were made to be able to replicate real sounds as well as creating new ones. But they did not really get to sound as violins or drums or voices or whatever, so it went into becoming a style of its own and the synth artificial sounds made their own mark and stood up on their own.

Soon we forgot the initial intent to create real sounding sounds with the synths and it became more of "creating weird sound effects". That is amazing in many ways. We all love those Juno, Jupiter and all the 70-80-90 synths despite their limited power to replace any acoustic sounds.

But somewhere I sense that we have got a bit stuck in a box on how a synth should sound like. Even with many modern synths, many try to imitate other synths from the past, but bringing in more of the same and so on. Synth sound has become identified as certain kind of metallic or harsh robotic artificial aura to them.

I am more interested in synths that really once again try to make a synth being able to modell real acoustic sounds so real as possible without using samples. Perfecting the laws of physics and sound making and design up to date with the abilities of todays computers.
Some might say "boring"...but I did not say that this synthesis have to be used to replicate a perfect real sounding violin or a classical guitar, it can do it beautifully, but the tools would then be so much more powerful to once again create virtual physical instruments out of your own imagination.
These synthesis does exist in some high priced synths from different brands. As someone said, Kong uses some physical modelling.

I know a lot can be shaped in synths as Parsec and Antidote and I love many of the synths in the shop, so no disrespect to any of them.
But, I would like to see more physical modelling methods in Reason, either by PH themselves or by other developers. Take it further.

If I have missed out on an existing synth in the shop that is at least moving into a forward thinking, pls let me know, as I have not tried all of the many synths that have came out since quite long. I often listen on demo-sounds and lose interest when I here the ordinary synthy distorted squashed sounds. I guess that is great for some genres of music, but I want to design whatever and use whatever style of any music or abstrakt soundscape, making sounds for video etc.

[ravasb]

Here's a theory:

Maybe the developers are neglecting full time development for reason because there's just not enough sales to cover for that development time spent.

I can think of 3 main reasons for that.

1. The reason SDK is to restrictive
2. The quality of the RE's just aren't good enough
3. A lot of what RE's do are already covered by reasons native devices, therefore reducing the need

My guess is option 3 mainly, but it's likely a combination of them all. I say this without being a RE developer myself, mind you.

Another issue is the inability to resell an RE, in the way that you can do a lot of VSTs. With VSTs I can clean out some that I am not using and use the money for a new one.

[Yonatan]

Here's a theory:

Maybe the developers are neglecting full time development for reason because there's just not enough sales to cover for that development time spent.

I can think of 3 main reasons for that.

1. The reason SDK is to restrictive
2. The quality of the RE's just aren't good enough
3. A lot of what RE's do are already covered by reasons native devices, therefore reducing the need

My guess is option 3 mainly, but it's likely a combination of them all. I say this without being a RE developer myself, mind you.

Another issue is the inability to resell an RE, in the way that you can do a lot of VSTs. With VSTs I can clean out some that I am not using and use the money for a new one.

The issue of not being able to sell or transfer RE:s is something I seriously think have to be adressed. Its just not a fair deal. It could also solve issue of the buying of the bundles, when getting double licenses.

[pjeudy]

About synth, there are some good synth,but PH Really need to add synth like Massive, Sylenth and NI.

Completely disagree - It will make the product from Reason sound like everything else.

How does that make any sense?
What does everything else sound like? If when you listen to a track from REASON DAW producer Lucky Date, can you tell which instruments he's using? Can you hear the "REASON Sound" in his tracks? I think he makes his MUSIC sound like a Dance Record.
REASON's native instruments and Rack Extension synth all basically have the same parameter no? OSC-filters-envelops- a routing matrix of some kind etc... so do those other none REASON synth out there.

I get the feeling that some REASON users have an us against them mentality... why? Developers create there devices for the Love/passion of sounds...Not because they worship the VST format and want to destroy the RE format.
It would be an honor in my opinion to have Native Instruments inside the REASON environment...why? Because just Like Selig,eXode,Jiggery,Propellerhead,Softube,Synapse etc... those guys at NI are extremely talented Programmers/Sound developers. NI MASSIVE is a fantastic piece of software synth, I think it would be fair if Massive where a Hardware Synth to be up there on the same stage with the other classics Prophet,Moog,Korg,ROLAND,Nord Lead etc....
Many people use it yes...but because it sounds fantastic and has CRAAAZZZYYYY Modulation capability.Lots of people my self included Love THOR for the same reason but Massive can do some really cool stuff. And did I mention how freaking AMAZING it sounds ?!

NI MASSIVE will go down as a classic synth in the world of virtual Synth, along side THOR , Sylenth1 and many others. Massive is popular at making those angry bass leads yes...but in the hands of other people you can make Ambient/soundscapes with it also? it's up to the user, but one thing is certain, you are guaranteed that you will have a fantastic sound engine at your disposal for making what ever sound you wanted....So explain to me why it wouldn't be a positive to have NI MASSIVE (or any other well respected/talented developers synth or Dynamic device) inside of REASON?

**Not begging NI for it, but I think it should be welcomed by most people even if only in theory**

heads up! you made 3 points in your post. I agree 200% with 2 of them....I'm only posting regarding 1 point I didn't quite agree with "it will make REASON sound like everything else"

[Kenni]

About synth, there are some good synth,but PH Really need to add synth like Massive, Sylenth and NI.

Completely disagree - It will make the product from Reason sound like everything else.

How does that make any sense?
What does everything else sound like? If when you listen to a track from REASON DAW producer Lucky Date, can you tell which instruments he's using? Can you hear the "REASON Sound" in his tracks? I think he makes his MUSIC sound like a Dance Record.
REASON's native instruments and Rack Extension synth all basically have the same parameter no? OSC-filters-envelops- a routing matrix of some kind etc... so do those other none REASON synth out there.

I get the feeling that some REASON users have an us against them mentality... why? Developers create there devices for the Love/passion of sounds...Not because they worship the VST format and want to destroy the RE format.
It would be an honor in my opinion to have Native Instruments inside the REASON environment...why? Because just Like Selig,eXode,Jiggery,Propellerhead,Softube,Synapse etc... those guys at NI are extremely talented Programmers/Sound developers. NI MASSIVE is a fantastic piece of software synth, I think it would be fair if Massive where a Hardware Synth to be up there on the same stage with the other classics Prophet,Moog,Korg,ROLAND,Nord Lead etc....
Many people use it yes...but because it sounds fantastic and has CRAAAZZZYYYY Modulation capability.Lots of people my self included Love THOR for the same reason but Massive can do some really cool stuff. And did I mention how freaking AMAZING it sounds ?!

NI MASSIVE will go down as a classic synth in the world of virtual Synth, along side THOR , Sylenth1 and many others. Massive is popular at making those angry bass leads yes...but in the hands of other people you can make Ambient/soundscapes with it also? it's up to the user, but one thing is certain, you are guaranteed that you will have a fantastic sound engine at your disposal for making what ever sound you wanted....So explain to me why it wouldn't be a positive to have NI MASSIVE (or any other well respected/talented developers synth or Dynamic device) inside of REASON?

**Not begging NI for it, but I think it should be welcomed by most people even if only in theory**

That's not what I meant. I just meant the constant screaming for vst support and more "pro-styled" synths is beyond me. Reason is a product that is on par with every other Daw in my opinion, sound wise. It's the only Daw in my opinion with such complete and packed native integrations.

In my experience, those who cry for, and overly use VSTs like sylenth, zebra, massive etc are mostly utilizing presets, which makes everything sound the same.

Mind you, I'm talking mostly from an electronica perspective. It's a whole generation of bedroom producers who are used to getting reason 5, pro tools, Cubase and ableton as Warez, as well as their VSTs.

You can't produce a synth in sylenth or zebra that can't be done with reasons native devices. I'm not a purist, I just really, really don't get what all the whining is about

[Kenni]

I agree about Massive by the way

[pjeudy]

That's not what I meant. I just meant the constant screaming for vst support and more "pro-styled" synths is beyond me. Reason is a product that is on par with every other Daw in my opinion, sound wise. It's the only Daw in my opinion with such complete and packed native integrations.

In my experience, those who cry for, and overly use VSTs like sylenth, zebra, massive etc are mostly utilizing presets, which makes everything sound the same.

Mind you, I'm talking mostly from an electronica perspective. It's a whole generation of bedroom producers who are used to getting reason 5, pro tools, Cubase and ableton as Warez, as well as their VSTs.

You can't produce a synth in sylenth or zebra that can't be done with reasons native devices. I'm not a purist, I just really, really don't get what all the whining is about

I respect both party's...those who say they want VST or VST like devices and those who say we have enough use what you have.
Yes I agree with you REASON comes with very good devices and instrument...it's just that I can't tell people what's enough for me should be enough for them! To me they should go a head and ask...and if a developer wants to step up to there request...then cool. Also demands and asking developers for more could be motivational for developers as well as a little annoying at the same time I'm sure.

I can't disagree or agree about people using Presets or not. I don't have enough information on that...But When I listen to a track from a guy like Lucky Date...his music sounds just like the other None REASON made tracks out there... So I think that Producers even if they are not using presets..create there sounds to sound like what there peers are making.

As far as "You can't produce a synth in sylenth or zebra that can't be done with reasons native devices"
I tried this 2 year ago when I was all 100% REASON....I made it a goal to copy many,many presets that I liked from Sylenth1 with a REASON instruments..It was possible with Some presets that only used ..say 2 or 3 of the 4 Sylenth1 OSC...But other then That I often times needed to use 2 instances of ANTIDOTE in a combinator to achieve many other sounds...I also at times needed to use 2 instances of THOR in order to recreate many sounds.

I did this to learn what parameters do Dance Music Sound designers tend to use to make there patches. I learned a lot in those exercises, and the reason I used Sylenth instead of say SPIRE or MASSIVE simply because those devices have there own signal path with more complexity that would require planning and head scratching to find which devices in REASON I could combined that would recreate what 1 instance of those devices can do...and that's the key!!! This is why I can't tell people enough is enough...because ultimately what could possibly make a synth catch fire and stand out, is usually do to there sound engine yes..... but also there Signal path and what effect that developer decided to put on the device and how you can use those effect to further modulate your sounds!

For example SPIRE has a very good sounding Vowel Phaser that is not found in any REASON devices or Rack Extension and many other cool ways you can modulate your sound that would be hard and take too long to try and guess how you would recreate them using CV devices attached to 4:3 Mixers inside a combinator etc.... But it's there, in SPRIRE. Those developers at Reveal Sound thought to put it in there device where other developers may have thought of something else....and that's the benefit of have more and more and push developers to create and innovate more and more! There's bound to be a synth or many more Synth that stands out from the rest. Antidote is a good synth with basic parameters and features right ? then what makes it stand out from the rest, native or RE.....????? Mmmmm ?

I say keep asking and keep pushing developers...as long as those users are still within the REASON environment then it's all good

[Skullture]

Resurrecting this topic, because I was curious I emailed to Reveal Sound to find out what the current state of Spire RE is. This was their response:

Greetings!

We are focused on releasing new features now. The development of Spire for RE platform will be continued later.

Best regards,

Reveal Sound Team

[riemac]

Resurrecting this topic, because I was curious I emailed to Reveal Sound to find out what the current state of Spire RE is. This was their response:

Greetings!

We are focused on releasing new features now. The development of Spire for RE platform will be continued later.

Best regards,

Reveal Sound Team

Thats not good. The only good thing about it is, that there is still hope in the not so near future for a Spire RE.

[eXode]

Resurrecting this topic, because I was curious I emailed to Reveal Sound to find out what the current state of Spire RE is. This was their response:

Greetings!

We are focused on releasing new features now. The development of Spire for RE platform will be continued later.

Best regards,

Reveal Sound Team

Last time they said it wouldn't be happening due to SDK limitations. Not sure how they'd get around those limitations tbh. Unless we get some feature cut version.