V9 Tester: some question about Scales&Chords vs AutoTheory

[Alkua]

1. Can you post a pic of the back Scales&Chords Player
2. Can you hook up one than one device in the Scales&Chords.
3. Scales&Chords has the ability to change the scale alone with the chord progression like AutoTheory.
4. What AutoTheory do the Scales&Chords Don't, and vice versa.

[geronimo]

I think we shall not disclose anything during a Beta-test: this is part of the rules .

[Jagwah]

I am wanting to know the same things as the OP posted, really want a rear panel shot.

What is going on with this no CV business, it's one of the best things about Reason. Is this a sign of ongoing noob focus?

And I really want to know how these devices stack up against REs like Auto Theory / Arp - if they had a similar advertising budget would we be seeing huge differences, especially considering the CV in / out freedom we have come to expect? Are Props lowering the bar with this CV expectation? Every time a RE comes out lacking in CV ports a bunch of people remind them this is one of the great things about Reason and how it's pretty much expected of them to include CV functionality all over the place.

Also, if anyone who is reading knows - when R9 is released will there be a demo version I can trial for a month or something like that?

[Alkua]

I think we shall not disclose anything during a Beta-test: this is part of the rules .

There are a bunch of posts about Reason v9 Testing, even in the PH Instagram account they uploaded a video of a user using v9 beta.

[Loque]

No CV out in an arpegiator? Wtf? Even no poly CV? I mean, wtf?

[Jagwah]

No CV out in an arpegiator? Wtf? Even no poly CV? I mean, wtf?

This is what I'm asking, can't find rear panel shots, beta testers aren't talking. From what I gather there are no CV ins or outs on these devices. To send CV data to these players you can use a Combinator's CV inputs - so they aren't directly on there. As for outputs I imagine it's the same - a workaround would be to send the notes to track then use One Note Stand or an RPG8 to send those notes to something else - so no live parameter tweaking to get somewhere you want to be.

Is this Props fading out CV focus to stop scaring off noobs who when faced with a DAW choice are turned off by what could be considered a confusing cabling system when other DAWs use drop down menus? Take a look at A-List Acoustic Guitarist and Studio Drummer - no CV outs. I remember a discussion where someone was asking me why I would want CV outs on these devices (defending the fact it didn't have any), layering or sending the pattern data anywhere I want are two examples off the top of my head, such is the nature of Reason and REs to experiment and create new uses for things. Coming from Props themselves this could indeed be considered setting a new bar.

Not the coolest news I have heard, the last upgrade was certainly noob focused, and now it looks like that wasn't just a period of transition - but more a new direction. It seems like it's years away before we can get a better idea of their direction, but for now it's pretty clear. A new SDK will certainly open up a lot of new possibilities (hopefully), but if Props are fading out CV focus then why should devs include in their devices? I imagine a new SDK will be tied to Reason 9 or even higher. Glad I didn't jump ahead basing things off a well polished intro video, I can't trial these devices myself until the full release so it's a shame beta testers can't really discuss it. I'll keep checking youtube for leaks in the meantime. R7 FTW!!

[buddard]

This is a public beta, so I think it's OK to discuss the details. I haven't seen any mention of an NDA in relation to this beta either.

There are no sockets on the back panels on any of the Players. They all "magically" attach to their instruments (or the next Player in the chain), transmitting fully polyphonic note data, from the instrument's perspective indistinguishable from that coming from its track. I think the Players are meant to be pure MIDI filters/generators, and are not intended to fully replace existing CV devices.

A Player attaches to only one instrument at a time, or one Combinator which of course opens up a lot more possibilities.

I don't have Autotheory and never tried it, so I can't compare them in detail, sorry.

[Chizmata]

1. Can you post a pic of the back Scales&Chords Player
2. Can you hook up one than one device in the Scales&Chords.
3. Scales&Chords has the ability to change the scale alone with the chord progression like AutoTheory.
4. What AutoTheory do the Scales&Chords Don't, and vice versa.

1. its absolutely blank

[Chizmata]

No CV out in an arpegiator? Wtf? Even no poly CV? I mean, wtf?

well, as its midi you can probably trick with thor or combinator to use the midi notes as cv signals.

[Jagwah]

1. its absolutely blank

Wow. At face value this worries me, but guess I'll have to wait until I can try these player devices out before I comment any further.

[normen]

They are basically on the MIDI side of things. CV isn't polyphonic so using CV would limit their possibilities. Sure you can play a chord using CV by sending the notes in very short succession but you can't for example then release only one of the chord notes with CV.

[Loque]

They are basically on the MIDI side of things. CV isn't polyphonic so using CV would limit their possibilities. Sure you can play a chord using CV by sending the notes in very short succession but you can't for example then release only one of the chord notes with CV.

http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=7491107

[normen]

They are basically on the MIDI side of things. CV isn't polyphonic so using CV would limit their possibilities. Sure you can play a chord using CV by sending the notes in very short succession but you can't for example then release only one of the chord notes with CV.

http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=7491107

Yeah I know, still doesn't make it work if it outputted this though as only a handful of instruments use "PolyCV".

[challism]

One of the best features of AutoTheory (IMO) is the ability to play a "strum" of the chords. Also there is a knob to humanize it and a shuffle knob. Using these knobs you can really come up with some things that don't sound like a robot is playing. I'm curious if the new players have such features?

[WongoTheSane]

1. Can you post a pic of the back Scales&Chords Player

By popular request, the backs!

back.JPG (65.93 KiB) Viewed 2271 times

2. Can you hook up one than one device in the Scales&Chords.

Yes, you can combine several instruments and add a Scales&Chords to the combinator itself. You can also mix'n'match:

multi.JPG (146.42 KiB) Viewed 2271 times

Here, there's a S&C on a Subtrator, another S&C on a Thor and finally a S&C on the combi itself.

3. Scales&Chords has the ability to change the scale alone with the chord progression like AutoTheory.

Yes. It can do this either by coercing out-of-scale notes into the scale, or filtering them out altogether. While on this point, I've read (elsewhere in these forums) comments about "PH is now making software for n00bs", "one-button music" and stuff like that. I don't thing that's the point of Scale & Chords at all. If it was, it would work like the cheap Bontempi-type organs for kids: one note gives a major chord, two notes at the same time give a minor, three notes give a seventh, and so on.

But it doesn't, it's clearly meant to be used while programming patterns. I solves my number one gripe about the Matrix Pattern Sequencer, which is the impossibility - up to now - to play a random sequence that is still in scale. NOW you can "Randomize device" all you want to find that sweet acid bass line and STILL be in scale, without having to correct every note in the not-very-convenient-spread-on-five-different-screens matrix of the Matrix ("miiiiind the cap!", only londoners will get this joke).

IMHO, Scale & Chords came about not because they wanted to make software for n00bs, but because they wanted at first to make a Matrix Mk II, and thought - wait, if we're adding scale filtering to the Matrix, why not make it available for ALL other instruments? And while we're at it, why not complement it why other Players that have the capability to interact with the sequencer, which is an oft-requested feature, so we can ultimately open this to other devs?

4. What AutoTheory do the Scales&Chords Don't, and vice versa.

Unfortunately, I haven't played with AutoTheory enough to answer your question.

[WongoTheSane]

One of the best features of AutoTheory (IMO) is the ability to play a "strum" of the chords. Also there is a knob to humanize it and a shuffle knob. Using these knobs you can really come up with some things that don't sound like a robot is playing. I'm curious if the new players have such features?

There's no strumming. That a very good idea though, maybe 9.1?

[Alkua]

Thanks for the Response @buddard, @Chizmata, @challism, and @WongoTheSane

Look like AutoTheory will still has its own space in the rack, but that idea of Matrix MK II sound really good.
A Master Matrix that you can set the scale and the progression and in any track that you place a S&C player
follow the matrix.

[Shokstar]

Maybe these 3 players are the first vst plugins available for the Reason Rack. Before we've got the Rack Extensions, we've got the echo and the Pulverizer in our rack (introduced in v. R6 as 3 new devices.)

[Jagwah]

Yes. It can do this either by coercing out-of-scale notes into the scale, or filtering them out altogether. While on this point, I've read (elsewhere in these forums) comments about "PH is now making software for n00bs", "one-button music" and stuff like that. I don't thing that's the point of Scale & Chords at all. If it was, it would work like the cheap Bontempi-type organs for kids: one note gives a major chord, two notes at the same time give a minor, three notes give a seventh, and so on.

But it doesn't, it's clearly meant to be used while programming patterns. I solves my number one gripe about the Matrix Pattern Sequencer, which is the impossibility - up to now - to play a random sequence that is still in scale. NOW you can "Randomize device" all you want to find that sweet acid bass line and STILL be in scale, without having to correct every note in the not-very-convenient-spread-on-five-different-screens matrix of the Matrix ("miiiiind the cap!", only londoners will get this joke).

IMHO, Scale & Chords came about not because they wanted to make software for n00bs, but because they wanted at first to make a Matrix Mk II, and thought - wait, if we're adding scale filtering to the Matrix, why not make it available for ALL other instruments? And while we're at it, why not complement it why other Players that have the capability to interact with the sequencer, which is an oft-requested feature, so we can ultimately open this to other devs?

Really good info thanks, and thanks for the picture.

[Jagwah]

Maybe these 3 players are the first vst plugins available for the Reason Rack. Before we've got the Rack Extensions, we've got the echo and the Pulverizer in our rack (introduced in v. R6 as 3 new devices.)

This does remind me of the time when we had The Echo, Alligator and Pulverizer as a new format (RE) without knowing it, will be interesting to see what comes of this.

[josb]

But it doesn't, it's clearly meant to be used while programming patterns. I solves my number one gripe about the Matrix Pattern Sequencer, which is the impossibility - up to now - to play a random sequence that is still in scale. NOW you can "Randomize device" all you want to find that sweet acid bass line and STILL be in scale, without having to correct every note in the not-very-convenient-spread-on-five-different-screens matrix of the Matrix ("miiiiind the cap!", only londoners will get this joke).

Wait, how would this work? The manual says you can only attach Players to Instruments, suggesting that the MIDI filters take input from the Sequencer, but when you connect, say, a Matrix to a Subtractor, the Subtractor isn't getting note data from the Sequencer (and neither is the Matrix), so how would a Player, even if it's attached to the Subtractor, help here? I'm assuming it's ignored when CV cables are used for note data, but maybe that assumption is wrong, and the Player intercepts any note data, even if submitted through CV connections?

[WongoTheSane]

But it doesn't, it's clearly meant to be used while programming patterns. I solves my number one gripe about the Matrix Pattern Sequencer, which is the impossibility - up to now - to play a random sequence that is still in scale. NOW you can "Randomize device" all you want to find that sweet acid bass line and STILL be in scale, without having to correct every note in the not-very-convenient-spread-on-five-different-screens matrix of the Matrix ("miiiiind the cap!", only londoners will get this joke).

Wait, how would this work? The manual says you can only attach Players to Instruments, suggesting that the MIDI filters take input from the Sequencer, but when you connect, say, a Matrix to a Subtractor, the Subtractor isn't getting note data from the Sequencer (and neither is the Matrix), so how would a Player, even if it's attached to the Subtractor, help here? I'm assuming it's ignored when CV cables are used for note data, but maybe that assumption is wrong, and the Player intercepts any note data, even if submitted through CV connections?

You're right, it's not as simple as using it on an instrument: you have to randomize the Matrix, "Copy pattern to track", and drag-drop this pattern on the track which drives the Scales & Chords and Subtractor. It's not as immediate as if a S&C was driving the Matrix, but I haven't found a faster way yet. Still, it's much faster than finding out-of-scale notes on the Matrix...

[selig]

But it doesn't, it's clearly meant to be used while programming patterns. I solves my number one gripe about the Matrix Pattern Sequencer, which is the impossibility - up to now - to play a random sequence that is still in scale. NOW you can "Randomize device" all you want to find that sweet acid bass line and STILL be in scale, without having to correct every note in the not-very-convenient-spread-on-five-different-screens matrix of the Matrix ("miiiiind the cap!", only londoners will get this joke).

Wait, how would this work? The manual says you can only attach Players to Instruments, suggesting that the MIDI filters take input from the Sequencer, but when you connect, say, a Matrix to a Subtractor, the Subtractor isn't getting note data from the Sequencer (and neither is the Matrix), so how would a Player, even if it's attached to the Subtractor, help here? I'm assuming it's ignored when CV cables are used for note data, but maybe that assumption is wrong, and the Player intercepts any note data, even if submitted through CV connections?

It works! Just Combine the Player/Subtractor, then add the Matrix - done!

[nooomy]

Im intrested in the custom mode for the "scales and chords" is it possible to create a custom set of chords? Or is it limited to only one chord?

[normen]

Im intrested in the custom mode for the "scales and chords" is it possible to create a custom set of chords? Or is it limited to only one chord?

It basically creates chords based on the scale you input. Then you can choose the number of notes used, a few inversions, additional octaves and an "open chord" mode which basically moves the color notes an octave up.