Creative filters??

[scratchnsnifff]

Was wondering something about filter REs, well I noticed that NI massive has an "all pass filter" serum has a ton of experimental filters (reverb filter) I was wondering if any REs have at least something close to an all pass filter?

[selig]

This is the only filter in Reason I'm aware of that includes an All Pass mode:
https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/unifylter/

[lowpryo]

Disperser by Kilohearts is also an all pass filter

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/disperser/

[Biolumin3sc3nt]

Etch Red comes to mind - still use it occasionally

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... al-filter/

[LABONERECORDINGS]

Red Queen has All Pass filters too

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... equalizer/

[dvdrtldg]

What are the uses of an all pass filter?

[scratchnsnifff]

What are the uses of an all pass filter?

Easy as pie vowel manipulation:D you can sweep through a segment of the cutoff and it makes yoiiis and they are useful for quick womps idk they are just good if your wanting something different than a Lp HP BP or notch/peak they are fun

[selig]

Red Queen has All Pass filters too

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... equalizer/

Noted, and apologies for not knowing this (and yet posting away anyway)!

[scratchnsnifff]

Red Queen has All Pass filters too

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... equalizer/

Noted, and apologies for not knowing this (and yet posting away anyway)!

bought that 20 dollar filter that has an all pass mode, it did not meet my needs, I had the wrong idea as to what it would accomplish.

[Loque]

Red Queen has All Pass filters too

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... equalizer/

Noted, and apologies for not knowing this (and yet posting away anyway)!

bought that 20 dollar filter that has an all pass mode, honestly was disappointed, you can't even hear or notice it sweeping, so i used the GQ-7 and made a combinator patch, how do i upload it to give it away?

Pack it in a zip and attach the file (button on the bottom).

[selig]

Red Queen has All Pass filters too

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... equalizer/

Noted, and apologies for not knowing this (and yet posting away anyway)!

bought that 20 dollar filter that has an all pass mode, honestly was disappointed, you can't even hear or notice it sweeping, so i used the GQ-7 and made a combinator patch, how do i upload it to give it away?

You have to mix it with the original - that's how you "hear" the phase shift of an All Pass filter. Set the Dry/Wet to 50% and you're good to go.

GQ7 has All Pass?

[Ostermilk]

Red Queen has All Pass filters too

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... equalizer/

In fact it is a veritable filter toolbox...

[LABONERECORDINGS]

All pass filters may sound like they're not doing anything to the signal, when in fact they are. What they do instead of frequency gain / cut is that they adjust the phase rotation. This can help change the shape of a transient .

Going to get all sciencey now (get your trigonometry books out), so bear with.

Phase relates to the angle of the audio signal within a turning circle (our turning circle is the audible level cycle we would hear). Depending on the frequency of the cycle will depends on the phase position at the time of sample playback. Each coloured dot represents the level we would hear (look at the left image).

Magnitude is the distance from the centre of the circle (know simple as amplitude, for ease)



Looking at the top image, the sine starts at 1 and goes through 8 back to 1 to create 1 complete cycle. No phase rotation, just a 'dry' sine.

Looking at the second image, the sine also starts at point 1, but is phase rotated 90 degrees - the old red (1) start is now the new yellow point, the old orange (2) point is now the new green point, and so on.

This is how an All Pass filter can work. The frequency centre of the all pass is where the rotation takes place, ie we have a sinewave at 50Hz, and we apply an All Pass filter also as 50Hz, which would rotate the signal 90 degrees - NOTE!! This is totally different to delaying by a few samples - a sine wave you may get away with delaying to get equivalent phase rotation (a sine is a sine after all), but anything else may be audible, even at such a few samples.

You can get different flavours of All Pass filters (90 degrees, 180 degress) so depending on which you use would determine the amount of rotation. Signals near to the frequency centre would be rotates also but not as severely, and would dip away back to 'original' phase the further from the centre you get (alike how a frequency Q would work, tight Q = less frequencies affected but more 'resonant' sound)

To our ears the phase change of the sine may not make any difference, but when sweeping up / down say a more harmonically rich signal (saw wave) we get that 'phasey' type of sound (because we're rotating a sinewave at the frequency centre).

Putting a few all passes together can create more towards the phasey sound we are more used to with such effects as, ahem, the phaser.

Ok phase rotation on transients... this can help bring spikes down but without affecting the amplitute - we're just 'rotating' it, so a high spike make become softer, which allows up to turn up signals, as well as help with compression etc, because our 'trigger' spikes are less pronounced so our compressor won't dip as hard and we could reduce compressor pumping, all relating to the tiniest of transients causing the compressor to kick in.

So, ok maybe the All pass isn't what you're specifically after in this case, as you're looking for 'creative' filters.... but what is the effect you're trying to achieve? All types of filter can be creative, just depends on the application and approach you're after

[scratchnsnifff]

Haha I totally had that wrong, I remember seeing a massive tutorial and I think vr used an all pass filter and it made some crazy vowel sounds, to my understand I thought an all pass filter was what looks like a band pass on the left and right with a notch in the middle what kind of filter is that? Il have to try some suggestions here

[scratchnsnifff]

All pass filters may sound like they're not doing anything to the signal, when in fact they are. What they do instead of frequency gain / cut is that they adjust the phase rotation. This can help change the shape of a transient .

Going to get all sciencey now (get your trigonometry books out), so bear with.

Phase relates to the angle of the audio signal within a turning circle (our turning circle is the audible level cycle we would hear). Depending on the frequency of the cycle will depends on the phase position at the time of sample playback. Each coloured dot represents the level we would hear (look at the left image).

Magnitude is the distance from the centre of the circle (know simple as amplitude, for ease)



Looking at the top image, the sine starts at 1 and goes through 8 back to 1 to create 1 complete cycle. No phase rotation, just a 'dry' sine.

Looking at the second image, the sine also starts at point 1, but is phase rotated 90 degrees - the old red (1) start is now the new yellow point, the old orange (2) point is now the new green point, and so on.

This is how an All Pass filter can work. The frequency centre of the all pass is where the rotation takes place, ie we have a sinewave at 50Hz, and we apply an All Pass filter also as 50Hz, which would rotate the signal 90 degrees - NOTE!! This is totally different to delaying by a few samples - a sine wave you may get away with delaying to get equivalent phase rotation (a sine is a sine after all), but anything else may be audible, even at such a few samples.

You can get different flavours of All Pass filters (90 degrees, 180 degress) so depending on which you use would determine the amount of rotation. Signals near to the frequency centre would be rotates also but not as severely, and would dip away back to 'original' phase the further from the centre you get (alike how a frequency Q would work, tight Q = less frequencies affected but more 'resonant' sound)

To our ears the phase change of the sine may not make any difference, but when sweeping up / down say a more harmonically rich signal (saw wave) we get that 'phasey' type of sound (because we're rotating a sinewave at the frequency centre).

Putting a few all passes together can create more towards the phasey sound we are more used to with such effects as, ahem, the phaser.

Ok phase rotation on transients... this can help bring spikes down but without affecting the amplitute - we're just 'rotating' it, so a high spike make become softer, which allows up to turn up signals, as well as help with compression etc, because our 'trigger' spikes are less pronounced so our compressor won't dip as hard and we could reduce compressor pumping, all relating to the tiniest of transients causing the compressor to kick in.

So, ok maybe the All pass isn't what you're specifically after in this case, as you're looking for 'creative' filters.... but what is the effect you're trying to achieve? All types of filter can be creative, just depends on the application and approach you're after

By the way hop you didn't think I was disappointed with your product I haven't tried red queen yet, I want to upload a combi I made to show what I thought an all pass was :p lol gotta love that YouTube knowledge

[LABONERECORDINGS]

Not at all bud, be good to see what you come up with anyway

[LABONERECORDINGS]

...to my understand I thought an all pass filter was what looks like a band pass on the left and right with a notch in the middle what kind of filter is that? Il have to try some suggestions here

That could be two band pass filters overlapping slightly, with a notch between the two as well - totally doable with Thor. Be good to see where you got the image from so we can see it to help more

[Loque]

So...when i try to use a all pass filter on only left or right, i might create different phases for only one channel and the result will be a phase-panning fx? Gotta try this...

[LABONERECORDINGS]

Yes but would be still frequency specific, so you wouldn't phase ALL frequencies at once, only frequency centre and surrounding ones

[MitchClark89]

Red Queen has All Pass filters too

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... equalizer/

Noted, and apologies for not knowing this (and yet posting away anyway)!

bought that 20 dollar filter that has an all pass mode, honestly was disappointed, you can't even hear or notice it sweeping, so i used the GQ-7 and made a combinator patch, how do i upload it to give it away?

Haha I totally had that wrong, I remember seeing a massive tutorial and I think vr used an all pass filter and it made some crazy vowel sounds, to my understand I thought an all pass filter was what looks like a band pass on the left and right with a notch in the middle what kind of filter is that? Il have to try some suggestions here

sir i like you but you should edit your post about how you were disappointed with the RE if you werent understanding how to use it proprely

respectfully and regards,

MC

[alex]

Nice thread and interesting discussion is going on here! And many thanks to Matt for taking time to write that explanation about phase and all pass filter! ^_^

A personal note about the OP: I would love to see a reverb filter in Reason too! Or better, as filter type inside some RE synths, like eXpanse/Zero/Predator/Quad etc.

As far as I can tell the reverb filter (in Serum) is quite used as sound design trick among "modern" Dubstep EDM producers like Virtual Riot, Knife Party, Kill The Noise, Getter etc, to get some really cool metallic/percussive bass sounds that have a very distinct "ringing/roomy" character (not sure I'm using the right words ).

But unfortunately I don't find much info about this topic around.

Here's few words from Duda itself saying that Serum reverb filter is based on Freeverb algo:



Here's few tracks where I believe the reverb filter was used:

(@1:17)

(@1:17)


Here's a video about Serum reverb filter, not exacly the type of sound I was looking for but good enough to get a grasp of it:

Ciao!

[Loque]

A personal note about the OP: I would love to see a reverb filter in Reason too! Or better, as filter type inside some RE synths, like eXpanse/Zero/Predator/Quad etc.

To me sounds like a comb filter, but i may be wrong. There was a discussion around here a few months back about using a comb filter in combination with a reverb and modulate it according to the note. I rebuild with this with Thor and RV7000 and it sound quite similar to your examples.

[theshoemaker]

A personal note about the OP: I would love to see a reverb filter in Reason too! Or better, as filter type inside some RE synths, like eXpanse/Zero/Predator/Quad etc.

To me sounds like a comb filter, but i may be wrong. There was a discussion around here a few months back about using a comb filter in combination with a reverb and modulate it according to the note. I rebuild with this with Thor and RV7000 and it sound quite similar to your examples.

Second That, I'm using a lot of this filter chains on the amp splits from sunder. Using the comb from pulveriser, but every other will do as well. With a Convolution. A reverser effect is also very cool, depending on the timings. The Kilohearts one, Polar or RV7000 ... using all of them for this effects.

[scratchnsnifff]

Red Queen has All Pass filters too

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... equalizer/

Noted, and apologies for not knowing this (and yet posting away anyway)!

bought that 20 dollar filter that has an all pass mode, honestly was disappointed, you can't even hear or notice it sweeping, so i used the GQ-7 and made a combinator patch, how do i upload it to give it away?

Haha I totally had that wrong, I remember seeing a massive tutorial and I think vr used an all pass filter and it made some crazy vowel sounds, to my understand I thought an all pass filter was what looks like a band pass on the left and right with a notch in the middle what kind of filter is that? Il have to try some suggestions here

sir i like you but you should edit your post about how you were disappointed with the RE if you werent understanding how to use it proprely

respectfully and regards,

MC

Done haha sorry bout that was just frustrated when I got it and it didn't do what I thought, was a user error no fault on the device. I'm excited to get home and try it out now that I have some insight on it.

[scratchnsnifff]

[quote="alex"]Nice thread and interesting discussion is going on here! And many thanks to Matt for taking time to write that explanation about phase and all pass filter! ^_^

A personal note about the OP: I would love to see a reverb filter in Reason too! Or better, as filter type inside some RE synths, like eXpanse/Zero/Predator/Quad etc.

Il second that, id pay for the ease of use so I don't always have to make weird EQ type filter sorts of things,