The Legend Phasing Issue

[Creativemind]

Hi All!

Have a phasing issue on Synapse The Legend.

On Quads RH patch, I can't stop the phasing sound in it. I've tried reducing the cut off on the filter and rolling off some of the high end frequencies using the Spectrum EQ and turned the delay and reverb off (dry / wet all the way down) on that patch but it's still happening. Any ideas? it isn't a delay compensation issue is it, I'm on 8.3?

Thanks!

[selig]

You mean the detuning effect? That's coming from the Output/Detune and Osc2/Fine being non-zero. Zero both of these out (in addition to bypassing FX just to be sure) and you should be
"straight, no phaser".

[Libraquaricorn]

You mean the detuning effect? That's coming from the Output/Detune and Osc2/Fine being non-zero. Zero both of these out (in addition to bypassing FX just to be sure) and you should be
"straight, no phaser".

Cudos for the Monk reference!

[Creativemind]

You mean the detuning effect? That's coming from the Output/Detune and Osc2/Fine being non-zero. Zero both of these out (in addition to bypassing FX just to be sure) and you should be
"straight, no phaser".

Do you mean (see attached pic)? 'cause zeroing that alters the sound dreastically. Osc2 isn't even on and altering the fine to 0 on Osc 1 alters the sound as well (too much so) and neither gets rid of the phasing sounding issue. Also bypassing the FX doesn't rid it either. Don't know what it is.

[Exowildebeest]

It's the Unison waves beating against each other and causing peaks and troughs - that's why the low end disappears every few notes, which is what I think you're calling phasing.

Btw, they're freerunning oscillators so you'll still get phasing when setting both oscs to 0 on the fine control. There'll still be an interference pattern as the waves drift in and out of phase.

[selig]

You mean the detuning effect? That's coming from the Output/Detune and Osc2/Fine being non-zero. Zero both of these out (in addition to bypassing FX just to be sure) and you should be
"straight, no phaser".

Do you mean (see attached pic)? 'cause zeroing that alters the sound dreastically. Osc2 isn't even on and altering the fine to 0 on Osc 1 alters the sound as well (too much so) and neither gets rid of the phasing sounding issue. Also bypassing the FX doesn't rid it either. Don't know what it is.

I just mean to turn those knobs to zero/minimum/off. Oscillator 2 is definitely on, not sure we're talking about the same things - doing what I suggested previously gets rid of the "phasing" that I'm hearing - can't say why this isn't working on your end, or why you are seeing Oscillator 2 as off and I'm seeing it on. Also, Oscillator 1's fine tune is already at zero - seems we may be talking about different patches, so here are some "before" and "after" pictures to make sure we're talking about the same thing.
On the left is the original patch, with FX ON, Detune at "4.05", and Osc 2 Fine Tune at "5.5". On the right, FX are "Off", Detune is "Zero/0.00", Osc 2 Fine Tune is "Zero/0.0". You can also see Osc 2 is definitely "On" in both images.

Screen Shot 2017-11-06 at 7.02.09 PM.png (657.26 KiB) Viewed 1522 times

[Creativemind]

It's the Unison waves beating against each other and causing peaks and troughs - that's why the low end disappears every few notes, which is what I think you're calling phasing.

Btw, they're freerunning oscillators so you'll still get phasing when setting both oscs to 0 on the fine control. There'll still be an interference pattern as the waves drift in and out of phase.

So you're saying it can't be eradicated?

What does freerunning mean?

[Creativemind]

Do you mean (see attached pic)? 'cause zeroing that alters the sound dreastically. Osc2 isn't even on and altering the fine to 0 on Osc 1 alters the sound as well (too much so) and neither gets rid of the phasing sounding issue. Also bypassing the FX doesn't rid it either. Don't know what it is.

I just mean to turn those knobs to zero/minimum/off. Oscillator 2 is definitely on, not sure we're talking about the same things - doing what I suggested previously gets rid of the "phasing" that I'm hearing - can't say why this isn't working on your end, or why you are seeing Oscillator 2 as off and I'm seeing it on. Also, Oscillator 1's fine tune is already at zero - seems we may be talking about different patches, so here are some "before" and "after" pictures to make sure we're talking about the same thing.
On the left is the original patch, with FX ON, Detune at "4.05", and Osc 2 Fine Tune at "5.5". On the right, FX are "Off", Detune is "Zero/0.00", Osc 2 Fine Tune is "Zero/0.0". You can also see Osc 2 is definitely "On" in both images.
Screen Shot 2017-11-06 at 7.02.09 PM.png

Yeah I've turned all those off (think I'd inadvertently turned Osc 2 off at some point) but long and short of it is, with all the things done you said, the phasing still hasn't stopped. It seems better with Osc 2 on.

[Loque]

...

I just checked the patch and the thing you might interpret as phasing. There is some kind of vibrato going on. I guess, because it emulates analog hardware, it just does not produce a constant output. I can hear and see some kind of vibrato going on. The waveform is just not constand as on several other synths.

Check out the waving while playing a constant note with a "simple" wave and nothing else on the left side:

vibrato.jpg (64.8 KiB) Viewed 1412 times

You may get similar results with other synths if you use modulation on several targets.

[littlejam]

hello,
@ Loque

can you provide the name of the software you are using to visualize that waveform please?

cheers,

jeff

[Loque]

hello,
@ Loque

can you provide the name of the software you are using to visualize that waveform please?

cheers,

jeff

Here it is (its free btw):
http://www.polygonaudio.com/html/sound_rider.html

Download:
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/sound- ... ygon-audio

[selig]

OK, found it - you need to switch out of Unison mode, which ALWAYS uses multiple oscillators even with Detune at 0.0.
What you're hearing is a slight detuning, even with detuning at zero and all other tuning related parameters (there are a lot) disabled.

Solutions: simply switch the "Polyphony" to "MONO/EXT" and the "phasing" will go away, assuming you use ONLY one oscillator.

You won't get rid of phasing when using more than one oscillator - it will either be a static phase offset depending on key sync (something Legend does not allow), or a slow sweeping phase shift. Note: Legend, being an analog emulation, will always drift a tiny amount as far as I can tell, which means always phasing to some degree with multiple oscillators.

[littlejam]

hello,

@Loque,

thanks for the program
it looks very cool

cheers,

j

[Creativemind]

hello,
@ Loque

can you provide the name of the software you are using to visualize that waveform please?

cheers,

jeff

I was just about to ask the very same question.

[Creativemind]

OK, found it - you need to switch out of Unison mode, which ALWAYS uses multiple oscillators even with Detune at 0.0.
What you're hearing is a slight detuning, even with detuning at zero and all other tuning related parameters (there are a lot) disabled.

Solutions: simply switch the "Polyphony" to "MONO/EXT" and the "phasing" will go away, assuming you use ONLY one oscillator.

You won't get rid of phasing when using more than one oscillator - it will either be a static phase offset depending on key sync (something Legend does not allow), or a slow sweeping phase shift. Note: Legend, being an analog emulation, will always drift a tiny amount as far as I can tell, which means always phasing to some degree with multiple oscillators.

Thanks Selig. I did try this at some point but for some reason ignored it (possibly because it alters the sound a little and makes it not as pleasing as with the unison on) also because the dry/wet of the delay and reverb needed zero'ing as well for it to be to my taste and I made up for what the unison took away by adding the UN-16 and voila, sorted. Thanks again!

Oh also, does the effects button on the front just kill the delay and reverb? if so I could've just turned that off instead of zero'ing the delay and reverb dry / wet amounts couldn't I.