Re wrapping

[scratchnsnifff]

I recently picked up ableton and have been dabbling with Reason with rewire mode. While it’s nice to be able to use Thor and other Reason devices, I do wish that they would come out with a wrapper for Re to vst conversion.

I’d like to hear thoughts on this, I know some think that Reason stuff should just stay in Reason. I believe that letting Rack extensions in other platforms will allow Re developers to grow a lot faster. I think it’s a win win for all parties involved, the props would have a larger demographic, developers also get a chance at larger sales, and users get to use previously unavailable content. Most importantly, us multi platform users get to have easier access to our virtual gear.
My main problem with rewire, is that it seems to make my computer work a lot harder. I would assume as such because instead of running one daw, you are running two.

[antic604]

I recently picked up ableton and have been dabbling with Reason with rewire mode. While it’s nice to be able to use Thor and other Reason devices, I do wish that they would come out with a wrapper for Re to vst conversion.

I feel it coming, I feel it coming babe

Seriously though, Props already proven they have the tech to port an RE to VST (Europa), web or hardware, so I think it's just a matter of time. The bigger question is how? Will they simply release Reason's devices as VSTs? Or perhaps provide a "Reason VST" that will allow you to open native & 3rd party REs that you own in other DAWs? Being a Reason user already I'd obviously prefer the latter.

However, from Props point of view both approaches have their pros & cons: 1st doesn't give an incentive to buy Reason, 2nd opens up a risk to users dropping Reason for other DAWs once they get a taste for something else...

Tough choice, but I think it will happen.

[Jackjackdaw]

Reason VST option would be great. I find the Reason sequencer a chore. Even zooming in and out is a pain in the ass in it. I love the rack though. If I could drop individual devices into Reaper that would be my ideal 11 release!

[PhillipOrdonez]

Reason VST option would be great. I find the Reason sequencer a chore. Even zooming in and out is a pain in the ass in it. I love the rack though. If I could drop individual devices into Reaper that would be my ideal 11 release!

I get what you mean about zooming. But have you tried the z key?

I personally wish there was a way to zoom in faster when using shift control wheel. It feels like one needs to scroll lots in order to get close enough to the waveform.

[scratchnsnifff]

I recently picked up ableton and have been dabbling with Reason with rewire mode. While it’s nice to be able to use Thor and other Reason devices, I do wish that they would come out with a wrapper for Re to vst conversion.

I feel it coming, I feel it coming babe

Seriously though, Props already proven they have the tech to port an RE to VST (Europa), web or hardware, so I think it's just a matter of time. The bigger question is how? Will they simply release Reason's devices as VSTs? Or perhaps provide a "Reason VST" that will allow you to open native & 3rd party REs that you own in other DAWs? Being a Reason user already I'd obviously prefer the latter.

However, from Props point of view both approaches have their pros & cons: 1st doesn't give an incentive to buy Reason, 2nd opens up a risk to users dropping Reason for other DAWs once they get a taste for something else...

Tough choice, but I think it will happen.

I think the second option makes most sense.

I’d like to see a basic device that has some CV utilities. Like it could be a shell and it would have pulsar, or a drawable LFO. Cv in/out

And cv merger splitter.

This way new users would get the ultimate taste of what it’s like working with Reason. And current users get what they have always known. The only drawback to this approach, is that You can only communicate with what is inside of that instance of the wrapper.

They don’t have to go super crazy, but I think that’s the best way to go about it. Other daws already have synths and effects. But other daws don’t have the best interconnected devices. I like max for live, but I haven’t found anything mind blowing yet. So this is definitely something that could pick up some heat

[guitfnky]

there’s no way they Propellerhead should do that unilaterally—just making REs available on other platforms. they would have to do it on a by-developer basis.

how frustrating would it be if a developer all of a sudden started getting bug reports/requests to fix functionality in a VST-wrapped version of their products? and then either have to spend time fixing them unexpectedly, or tell users to pound salt, if they’re not supporting it.

[antic604]

I think the second option makes most sense.

I’d like to see a basic device that has some CV utilities. Like it could be a shell and it would have pulsar, or a drawable LFO. Cv in/out

So, in other words a Combi VST?

Yeah, that'd be cool!

[Crumbfort]

I think the second option makes most sense.

I’d like to see a basic device that has some CV utilities. Like it could be a shell and it would have pulsar, or a drawable LFO. Cv in/out

So, in other words a Combi VST?

Yeah, that'd be cool!

A combinator VST?

I want to go to there.png (88.6 KiB) Viewed 5715 times

[Loque]

For the developers a big market would open and everybody including PH would earn more cash. It just need to be done right, like what about a CV utility in a VST host?

I don't think there will be a RE host in VST format... Who knows....maybe if PH extends to a more modular rack and there will be something like Reaktor and Kontakt.

[Boombastix]

The RE host in VST format may have more merit than you think. My guess is that PH launched Europa and is closely monitoring piracy issues before taking any further steps.
If you have to buy the RE via the PH shop developers are almost guaranteed 0% piracy, but then end users can use RE in any host if that VST wrapper is available.
I suppose they need to think how many will not buy Reason and buy other DAWs if they can buy/use single REs anywhere. It will cannibalize some Reason sales, but open up a big new "RE in VST host" market.
Or just do what Image Line does, make the whole DAW as a VST plugin, but then it is kinda what Rewire is...

[anko]

a prophead vst that was a wrapper for the rack would be super awesome(!!)... but maybe technically impossible.
what i mean is a stand-alone vst version of the rack itself. it would still host rack extensions in their native format but would let you attach the (vst-compatible) outputs (of the entire rack) available to any vst host...

[scratchnsnifff]

For the developers a big market would open and everybody including PH would earn more cash. It just need to be done right, like what about a CV utility in a VST host?

I don't think there will be a RE host in VST format... Who knows....maybe if PH extends to a more modular rack and there will be something like Reaktor and Kontakt.

well if you look at something like kilohertz multipass or there other snappin host, it has LFO's envelopes, envelope followers, and other modulators macros etc.

i think that it could be possible to have a container, and when you press tab it allows the back of rack devices. i think it could be possible to have something like this.

just a container with modulators, and maybe it would even be easier for the props. because they would just be able to implement the same coding that they have inside of reason.

i feel like anything is doable, especially in the software world

[Jackjackdaw]

It's all a bit moot though isn't it. If Props would beef up the sequencer and DAW side of things and make a mixer that fitted on the screen then we wouldn't be as curious about having the rack in another DAW.

[scratchnsnifff]

It's all a bit moot though isn't it. If Props would beef up the sequencer and DAW side of things and make a mixer that fitted on the screen then we wouldn't be as curious about having the rack in another DAW.

Sure users who only use Reason will absolutely feel that way. I’m going to school and next semester I’ll have to use logic.

Also, I have ableton and so far I can only use my Rob Papen stuff. Blamsoft s vk1 (which was never an absolute favorite) and Europa. I kind of wish blamsoft made expanse or zero into a vst, operator is alright but it’s no zero imo.

It’s all such a weird situation, because users like myself are stuck between wanting to use their tools in an easy way, and having to use vst counterparts. It works, but damn would it be nice to just have a propellerhead take on multipass. But with synths effects and a pinch of CV.

I think something like this would be much welcomed by outsider. It could be like getting a very in depth demo, but instead of propellerhead getting just one sale, they could have many potential Re sales. And if the foreigners like the workflow, then they go ahead and get Reason for stuff like Thor, malström, scream, synchronous etc

[scratchnsnifff]

a prophead vst that was a wrapper for the rack would be super awesome(!!)... but maybe technically impossible.
what i mean is a stand-alone vst version of the rack itself. it would still host rack extensions in their native format but would let you attach the (vst-compatible) outputs (of the entire rack) available to any vst host...

I think it depends on how it’s implemented, if they have a fairly easy way of porting to vst, then I think they would just do a device by device type of format.

But I think it would be easier to make something that translates the format as a whole.

I mean if we can have a vst wrapper inside of Reason and have Reason effects attached, I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to do that in reverse.

As Iv said before, think of a device that is a rack, with a few built in utilities and then you get to load up your rack extension collection.

The release of Europa vst, web, and mobile. Plus the juice video they put out, absolutely makes it all sound possible. It’s just a matter if they want to Take the gamblers approach of letting everyone have access. I don’t think it would kill Reason sales, people will always end up with tools that they want. I think a wrapper like this would just get a lot of people more open to using Reason. A lot of music makers where I live seem to be surprised when I say I use the latest version of Reason, lol there are people out there that think Reason went under ( no clue why people think that but Iv heard it enough times at festivals etc)

[Crumbfort]

It's all a bit moot though isn't it. If Props would beef up the sequencer and DAW side of things and make a mixer that fitted on the screen then we wouldn't be as curious about having the rack in another DAW.

Sure users who only use Reason will absolutely feel that way. I’m going to school and next semester I’ll have to use logic.

Also, I have ableton and so far I can only use my Rob Papen stuff. Blamsoft s vk1 (which was never an absolute favorite) and Europa. I kind of wish blamsoft made expanse or zero into a vst, operator is alright but it’s no zero imo.

It’s all such a weird situation, because users like myself are stuck between wanting to use their tools in an easy way, and having to use vst counterparts. It works, but damn would it be nice to just have a propellerhead take on multipass. But with synths effects and a pinch of CV.

I think something like this would be much welcomed by outsider. It could be like getting a very in depth demo, but instead of propellerhead getting just one sale, they could have many potential Re sales. And if the foreigners like the workflow, then they go ahead and get Reason for stuff like Thor, malström, scream, synchronous etc

I definitely agree with you here. I do sometimes for fun just work purely in Reason, but the vast majority of my time (doing music for video games/film/TV/etc) is spent in Reaper (sometimes some Logic, as well). I'm not looking for Reason to replace Reaper/Logic on that sort of scale, to be honest. If props came out with a VST combinator I would buy even MORE rack extensions, funny enough. ReWiring does work (kind of) but it is always somewhat of a hassle and does not feel as streamlined as it could be. Being able to create player chains/fx chains/crazy instrument chains in individual VST combinators would be a dream come true, for me at least.

I have friends/colleagues who work in Logic/Reaper and certainly have no interest in picking up Reason at this point in time, which is completely fair enough. Different strokes. But... they would guaranteed be interested in investing in REs if there was a VST combinator type of thing, big time.

[Enterface]

+1 for a Combi to VST export option... not holding my breath

[FLVZ]

However, from Props point of view both approaches have their pros & cons: 1st doesn't give an incentive to buy Reason, 2nd opens up a risk to users dropping Reason for other DAWs once they get a taste for something else...

The counter argument for this, is that this Rack Extension VST shell would actually lure more people to the Prop Shop to buy REs where its much easier for props to actually sell them other things such Europa or Grain is they released it seperately. The whole point really is so we can use our compressors and EQs outside of Reason for tasks we need to complete outside the DAW that aren't related to the purpose we use Reason for. I'd love to have access to Selig's Leveler outside of Reason for example! This would put developers in a more open market without compromising the antipiracy aspect of things. I see lots of positives from a RE to VST shell!

[antic604]

The counter argument for this, is that this Rack Extension VST shell would actually lure more people to the Prop Shop to buy REs where its much easier for props to actually sell them other things such Europa or Grain is they released it seperately.

Definitely! The question is what Props are caring for - expanding Reason as a music production ecosystem, or just maximising profits? Few years ago I'd say the former, nowadays - after acquisition - perhaps the latter? And I'm not saying it's a bad thing! Like you, I'll continue using Reason but at the same time I'd love to have Grain or Parsec or Vk-2 in Bitwig or Cubase.

[evolve187]

Reason VST option would be great. I find the Reason sequencer a chore. Even zooming in and out is a pain in the ass in it. I love the rack though. If I could drop individual devices into Reaper that would be my ideal 11 release!

I get what you mean about zooming. But have you tried the z key?

I personally wish there was a way to zoom in faster when using shift control wheel. It feels like one needs to scroll lots in order to get close enough to the waveform.

Have you tried the g and H keys for zooming? i use them constantly...

[PhillipOrdonez]

I get what you mean about zooming. But have you tried the z key?

I personally wish there was a way to zoom in faster when using shift control wheel. It feels like one needs to scroll lots in order to get close enough to the waveform.

Have you tried the g and H keys for zooming? i use them constantly...

My problem is I cannot look at the keyboard while I'm working (waste of time). I use the shift control wheel combo because they are easy to find without looking.

[scratchnsnifff]

iv been using ableton since i picked it up with my returns, and day after day I'm craving to use the synths and effects that i started with.


sure i wouldn't be able to use thor, malstrom subtractor, but at least theres a europa vst; but it would be freaking amazing to use expanse with my air raid audio effects <3

i will always find RE to be the easier tools. Reason will always be the faster DAW to me, but when using live. i would do anything to be able to use my RE collection in other worlds