Wake up guys...

[elwoodblues914C5]

Bitley,

You don't have to convince me of the stellar quality of your...uh-hem..."refills"...as you had me,ever since I first heard those exquisite Jan Hammer sounds from one of your videos,a few years back.I love the mad-scientist type of sound programmers like you...keep up the great work!
That said,can you p-l-e-a-s-e make some Alesis Ion and Fusion "refills"?I desperately miss my beloved Ion keyboard for it's sounds and I never had the pleasure of owning a Fusion(due to too many defects)...and no one else has ever made such sounds,so I am insanely desperate for those sounds!

[bitley]

Hi Elwood,

I have heard this request before. The Fusion wasn't too exciting, I had one back in 2008 when they were already being sold out for 1/3rd of the price because of the low demand; perhaps it was because it looked a bit like the dashboard of an armenian truck or something. It had sample playback, FM synthesis and a VA engine similar to the one on the ION but with added polyphony. It sounded pretty decent but not "special" in the way a PPG, Prophet VS, Fairlight or D-50 does (I think all of those have characters of their own).

And hi, Selig; I don't know why you had to paint such an extreme example but that's up to you. What I was saying was that I don't think Reason is limiting at all, I would if it was a monophonic one oscillator 8-bit sample playback engine without effects but since it's not, there's nothing to worry about when it comes to possibilities. If the NNXT filter is boring for a certain sound it's very easy just to bypass that and route the sound to other filters and whatnot.

And hi to Harald as well and the others who keeps reading the first post but not the followups; I have tried to explain that this thread wasn't an attack on anything at all but I have also worked for companies previously where soundbanks had to be made very quickly as everything there was about sales and nothing else. If I wanted to produce quality stuff anyway, I had to stay there on my spare time without getting paid anything extra.

But without further ado, here's my larger explanation once again and I may have to repeat this one if further attackers / defenders are about to enter the thread...

Friends,

There is no hate on Rack extensions, other refills, Reason users, biscuits, Tasmanian dwarfs, uilleann pipes, Kong users, Donkey Kong players or Jazzmatazz records in this thread, no need for anyone to be offended in any way at all; it was just written in a moment of slight frustration, when feeling that the enormous amount of work with this soundbank still hasn't reached out much to the Reason user base at large.

I was perhaps feeling like, um, someone opening a new McDonalds restaurant only to serve just five customers the first day. That guy would call the marketing division and ask if they'd not published any advertisements. He would go out on the street, perhaps go for a little ride in his McDonalds pickup, to see if the signs were visible at all. As I am not running a McDonalds restaurant, I don't have a marketing department and no large signpoints. I just have a small website out there in the universe, and I am just hoping for some google search results pointing my direction. There is a youtube channel and a little cloud on the soundcloud heaven, but sometimes one just can get the feeling of things not being enough. There have been Facebook advertisements of the simplest form, and they have resulted in a 'Like' or two, but still: Aren't there more Reason users? That's the feeling.

Now, from reading all the good comments in this thread, I've started to realize that perhaps I need to change some of the bits in this puzzle. I have often been thinking that a product info & order page shouldn't have too much text, since that wouldn't be attractive to people not much into the english language; japanese visitors perhaps just plays the demos anyway? Who knows!

Anyway: I am greatful for those who have been understanding me, and I am sorry to hear if anyone felt jumped on in any sort of bad way.

I personally started out with synthesizers in 1985, and I felt like I discovered the world when I bought my first issue of Keyboard Magazine in 1987, first week in highscool in a town named Södertälje, where they sold international magazines. Long before internet and all that. I had been programming sounds on my first synthesizers; Casio CZ-101 and Roland Juno 2. But I thought those sounds were very basic and so on. So I started purchasing sound banks on Atari ST disks or even on paper; manually entering all the values into the Juno 2 from a Livewire soundsheet. Suddenly I realized those sounds weren't too exciting either. So I realized I might need a reverb. Or a delay. And a drum machine. I often tell the tale of how I used to beg and cry for a little cash from my dear parents, then go in to Södertälje by commuter train from Gnesta where I grew up, a 30 minute ride, walk from there to Tälje Musik, a musicstore, and rent a Roland TR-626 over the weekends. Armed with the Juno and the 626 I would record sound-on-sound demos on my dad's old Sony TC-366 reel tape recorder from like 1970 or so. The Sony manual described, painfully theoretical, how one should connect the RCA cables in order for the magical sound-on-sound effect. I rummaged my dad's guitar equipment and found his pink Ibanez AD-9, analog delay pedal, and connected that one to my Juno. My dad saw me and said with surprise: "What in the world are you doing, son?". That's how it all started for me... hehe.

In 1989 I worked an entire summer saving up for my first own computer; an Atari 1040 ST. After that, I realized I needed multitimbral synthesizers and the Yamaha TX81Z became the first one. In 1991 I had begun buying, selling and trading synthesizers like mad using the yellow pages, or Gula Tidningen as it was called in Sweden. Gearlist back then; Kawai K4, TX81Z, Matrix 1000, Yamaha RY30, Roland JX8P, Alesis Midiverb III, Roland M120, Korg DW6000... then finally in 1992 I could afford my first sampler; an Akai S700.

After that - a complete BAZUNGA of instruments, samplers, soundbanks, a journey that's been going on ever since then. The search for the perfect sound. I bought sample CDs, I sampled anything that made a sound; stored it all; samplers like EPS 16 Plus, ASR10, S-1000, S-2000, E-5000, Emulator III, Casio FZ-1, etc etc... sometimes I found Fairlight sounds and just WOWed about how cool they were, instantly recognizing Art Of Noise, Pet Shop Boys, Howard Jones and Yazoo sounds.

Now... to the Fairlight... then...



Fairlight always was that magical, mythical, amazing, utterly expensive, utterly secret machine that only guys like the ones above, A-ha and Kraftwerk had access to. And then one day, in late 2009, a friend I chat with starts mentioning that he had one in his studio and just sold and shipped it to France in a specially made giant wooden box. I go like "Nooooo man How Could You Ever!?"... "CASH" he said... hehe, "but I have recorded all of the sounds, including my own ones, I have them on my computer..."... and I start begging like the worst beggar ever, saying that I really would love love love love building a sound bank based on that. It's actually a rainy night and the time is like 21.00 (9 PM) on a friday night. He says "my kid and my wife are having a cold... they are sleeping already..." and I'm like... I don't care man... I care, but you know, I don't care... can I come over? "Now?!" "Yeah?"... hehe. "OK then but we have to be really quiet and we can't use any speakers"... "Sure bro, no problems"... and then I walk about a mile to reach his flat, rain is pouring down and almost nobody is outside. I get up there and we meet for the first time, two synth nerds sneaking around like thiefs there in his flat, "shhh, be quiet!", "Oh... sorry... damn... dropped my shoe!"... then he shows his Fairlight sample collection and I'm just bewildered by the promise of getting access to all this. Armed with the newly burned DVD with all the samples I literally sing in the rain, and dance the way back home.

Then I know a guy who knows Peter Vogel. Founder of the Fairlight CMI, down in Australia, so we contact him asking if maybe we could do something with these sounds if we treat them carefully, and we send a demo of the first built sounds. He replies in a week; "This is actually a very good idea as it will help spreading the information about the Fairlight. We will do something new here and it will take a while, so I think your soundbank can fill up some spots for us, but I don't own the rights myself any longer so you will have to ask the "other" Fairlight as well." So I write to them as well, the ones making the high end standalone DAW and mixing systems. "Oh, cool", they respond, "...we actually love Reason and use it in our demos sometimes so if we could have the old CMI sounds in there it would be a fun addition... Go ahead!"... and suddenly I have the blessing. I also write to the remainings of E-mu Systems, and they also respond in a super positive way; "Your demo sounds great. Feel free to include those sounds". So then a lot of bases are covered for this project to start.

The first version is released in 2010, and it comes with about 400 patches, but none of the factory presets, just "Fairlight inspired" sounds, so people on Propellerheads' User Forum, including Peff, etc, tells me to please add the Fairlight presets too. Then a google journey starts, and I print out several versions of the PDFs people have made on the Fairlight soundbank, covering about 22 8-inch floppy disks with about 10-15 sounds on each. As I have all samples it's basically a work of looping them, fixing start points, cutting them, etc, and I use various tools but not happy with external loop editors I first feel that looping sounds in the NNXT itself actually is faster, so an extremely tedious process begins; a single violin sound can take up to three hours to loop correctly, tweaking, tweaking, tweaking... working days and nights, endlessly, and after like 2-3 months I am able to release the first update, called Supremacy; an addition to Fairlight CMI Legacy.

Six years later... I am still... extremely enthusiastic about the opportunity I got, and I still build sounds, and I still loop them in Reason, but now I loop the waveforms instead, which is much faster and better. So for WBF R2 I actually "resampled" much of the work, using the new fixed waveforms instead, with included looping points, so that it's easier than ever to build new sounds.

The amazing soundbank I am talking about really, is of course the original Fairlight CMI soundbank. It was amazing for real, because it was assembled at Fairlight in Australia, from manually snail-posted 8-inch disks sent from studios mainly in the UK, some sounds are actually sampled by Peter Gabriel himself for instance. I am guessing the CMI was so extremely expensive, even for guys like him, that contributing to the disk library perhaps gave price reductions or other benefits. One such disk, sent from France, I believe, featured the all time classic Sararr sound, the one you'll hear playing the main melody in Art Of Noise's legendary Moments In Love;

For the one into this for real, the story behind that sound alone is extremely exciting; it is a sample of a singer named Sara, carefully instructed to "sing like a synthesizer", "with lots of air in your timbre".

These sounds were, in 1982 or 1983 high end sounds only for the high end users lucky enough to even have access to a Fairlight. A system that cost like five new Volvo cars back then, or the equivalent of a luxurious mansion. $200,000 back in 1982 is like how much today? That, is the Fairlight.

The rest is history? I don't know, it lives on for me, I still love that track and all the other tracks people made with these machines.

And I love becoming a part of the Fairlight history in a way, by renewing it, adding to it, keeping it updated.

That's the moment in love from me... I could write a book on this but I would need to do it in my native language... Sorry for any faults in the english...

[ravasb]

Just bought WBS to go along with WBF. Both are completely brilliant and usable and play nicely together, too. Patrick's customer service is fantastic, too.

[bitley]

Most kind of you! Nice customers get nice support!

[Last Alternative]

So is it made out of only stock devices? And are there 1-shot drum samples or is it all kits? I don't have or want any of the RE synths so I wanna make sure if I buy WBF2 there won't be patches I can't use. Everything I've heard so far is utterly amazing; a world above what Reason has to offer. I'm no good at sound design so I have to rely on the FSB or REfills for my synths, basses, pads, etc. Always looking for incredible sounds right from the get-go just like this!
-Jace

[bitley]

Go ahead, you won't be dissapointed!

[Last Alternative]

I'm not sure how fast you read my post but I had a few questions about it first.

[bitley]

Sure; your questions were a little bit unclear; a drum kit of course contains "one shot drum samples", or did you mean drum loops? There are no particular drum loops in the library but there are a couple of REX'ed drum loops. There are RE patches in the refill to satisfy those looking for new RE patches but that is just icing on the cake and no REs are needed to fully enjoy it. So without further ado; go ahead, you'll love it.

[Last Alternative]

Ok cool. To rephrase, I wanted to make sure there are 1-shot drum samples to make my own kits and also no RE devices used for the instrument patches.

[elMisse]

Made (paypal-) purchase of WBS 23.6, still waiting for download link.....

[bitley]

Last Alt: Yes! Go ah...

[bitley]

Elmisse: Sorry to hear this! Your invitation was sent the 23rd too, please check; I PMed some details to you.

[Last Alternative]

bitley - please answer my questions. Yes doesn't tell me much about my inquiries. $55 is a super great sale price but it's still a lot of money so please answer each question I have before I take the dive.

[bitley]

OK! Well sir you get over 6 THOUSAND samples in WBF R2 so you can build as many drum kits you want and then some. There already are hundreds of kits made in the refill, and all drum kits do indeed contain single drum hit samples. As for patches YES they are built with the stock devices. You are getting over four THOUSAND such patches. Those made for rack extensions are placed in a specific sub category for that, easily found for the one who has PX7, Polysix or some others, where there are specially designed sounds using those REs. NONE of the main sounds are "non stock devices" creations, the refill can be fully used using an unexpanded version of Reason. I hope this reply helps you.

If you still are unsure, perhaps you want to read some user comments?

[Last Alternative]

Right on thank you. That's what I wanted to know. One more question - you're the one who made Oxide drums, right? If so, are those the drums in WBF2, or are they different? Asking because I already have Oxide, which is freaking sick by the way.

[NisseJ]

Right on thank you. That's what I wanted to know. One more question - you're the one who made Oxide drums, right? If so, are those the drums in WBF2, or are they different? Asking because I already have Oxide, which is freaking sick by the way.

Oxide is by bitword

http://www.bitword.com/index.php?main_p ... e26a48a58f

[bitley]

Yup, my drum refill is called DaBeat, specifically made for ReDrum. Those sounds are basically in WBF R2 as well.

[Last Alternative]

Oh nice! Thanks for all the info you guys. SOLD! To the man in the Mr. Cool shirt and orange shades!

[bitley]

Cool, your order is welcome anytime...

[selig]

And hi, Selig; I don't know why you had to paint such an extreme example but that's up to you. What I was saying was that I don't think Reason is limiting at all, I would if it was a monophonic one oscillator 8-bit sample playback engine without effects but since it's not, there's nothing to worry about when it comes to possibilities. If the NNXT filter is boring for a certain sound it's very easy just to bypass that and route the sound to other filters and whatnot.

I used an extreme example to make my point: I was pointing out that there IS a line where limitations don't make sense. I was trying to relate to you, since you didn't even see your ReFills as ReFills - that's a pretty extreme view IMO!

Also, as for the filter issue you MUST know that a monophonic filter placed after an NNXT is NO substitute for a polyphonic filter "per voice", like the original CMI had for example.

Let me put it another way - if you don't see a market for these samples as REs, then why not give the samples to me and I'll make some killer REs myself!

[bitley]

The NNXT has separate outputs so it's actually fun doing extravagant connections that way, and it is more "Fairlight" than anything emulating 8 separate voice boards. Anyway, of course there are future plans, but there is a lot of new knowledge that I need to obtain, for instance how to create 3D design. I need someone to teach me that. Propellerhead's methods are cumbersome.

[elMisse]

Elmisse: Sorry to hear this! Your invitation was sent the 23rd too, please check; I PMed some details to you.

Thanks, already like the refill a lot

[tt_lab]

Hey Bitley...don't want to bother you but you didn't answer my question...

[selig]

The NNXT has separate outputs so it's actually fun doing extravagant connections that way, and it is more "Fairlight" than anything emulating 8 separate voice boards. Anyway, of course there are future plans, but there is a lot of new knowledge that I need to obtain, for instance how to create 3D design. I need someone to teach me that. Propellerhead's methods are cumbersome.

If you talk about the sampling option only, then I agree - and even NN19 and just about every sampler ever made is very much "Fairlight". I don't think the filters are the same, and there are other differences with the way interpolation works with the D/A etc.

But the original was so much more than just a sampler.

As for 3D, I have yet to design a 3D part myself in all my REs. I also don't know much about C++ coding. But I refuse to let stuff like that stop me when I'm on a "mission", and always find ways around my limitations once I decide I want something! I don't know what your specific circumstances are, but I had much less experience than you when I decided to build my first RE!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[elwoodblues914C5]

Hi Elwood,

I have heard this request before. The Fusion wasn't too exciting, I had one back in 2008 when they were already being sold out for 1/3rd of the price because of the low demand; perhaps it was because it looked a bit like the dashboard of an armenian truck or something. It had sample playback, FM synthesis and a VA engine similar to the one on the ION but with added polyphony. It sounded pretty decent but not "special" in the way a PPG, Prophet VS, Fairlight or D-50 does (I think all of those have characters of their own).

Bitley,

In terms of the Alesis Fusions's chassis,display screen and overall build quality(not to mention the various defects)...I agree,it wasn't too exciting(which is what precisely prohibited me from buying one.)I did however,own an Ion at one time(but the piss poor keybed and lack of USB,forced me to sell it.)
However please don't tell me those boards weren't special,as actually they were(considering that they were analogue modeling keyboards)...but what really made them special,was the programming behind them.I am confident that(with all of Reason's synthesis resources)...Reason could easily replicate the sounds of both of these Alesis boards,but no one is,or ever has...made a comprehensive replication of them in a Reason Refill(which is a terrible tragedy.)

The aforementioned keyboard's sounds,may not have been special to you personally,but believe me,the fans are out there.In fact,some time ago,the internet was buzzing over the possibility of a program specific to Kontakt,that had all of the Fusion and Ion presets...but for some unknown reason,never came to fruition.

I can't necessarily speak for the masses,but as far as I'm concerned,such a collection of sounds in the form of a Refill,would be a valuable asset(though probably not as viable as say,your Fairlight collection)...but nonetheless,the demand for such a Refill,is there.
Cost is of no issue to me,as I would pay anything you would ask for,for such a program and as I am sure you are well aware of,there are plenty of musicians out there,who are not genius sound programmers and would be happy to pay for someone else to do the programming.
Sound programming in Reason(at least to me)...is a very daunting and complicated thing...I mean....there is even classes you can take at Berkley,that are specific to Reason.I consider myself a serious tweaker and it is something I enjoy doing,but unless I were to take such classes and instructions,I will never make it to the level of a professional sound programmer and I just soon pay someone else to do the programming for me,so I can focus more on creating songs,rather than spending long hours,trying to replicate a specific sound,that I know I will never achieve on my own.

I realize that you need to make a living and that perhaps making an Alesis Refill is not worth your time(unless of course,half the planet is screaming for such a refill)...but I have a hard time believing that there are not enough Alesis fans out there,for it to be worthwhile to you.

I have also put in a request for the guy at SoundCells to make an Alesis Refill...but to no avail....I just don't understand the resistance to this concept.Then again though...I suppose that Propellerhead will never be as popular as Native Instruments.