What Time Signature Is This?

[Creativemind]

Hi All!

What time signature is this please?



Thanks!

[guitfnky]

Hi All!

What time signature is this please?



Thanks!

I think it's actually 4/4, but the syncopation just makes it feel like it's in an odd time signature.

[Creativemind]

Hi All!

What time signature is this please?



Thanks!

I think it's actually 4/4, but the syncopation just makes it feel like it's in an odd time signature.

I can't get it to loop exactly right and don't know why. Strange if it's 4/4.

[guitfnky]

I think it's actually 4/4, but the syncopation just makes it feel like it's in an odd time signature.

I can't get it to loop exactly right and don't know why. Strange if it's 4/4.

which sort of makes sense, because the syncopation in the bass is that you’re starting the first note of the next measure a 16th (I think) early. so the first note of every measure (except the first measure) is already ringing when the first downbeat of the measure hits.

[Steedus]

Yeah it's 4/4 but a really cool feeling.

I think the issue you're having is the first beat of the loop starts with the kick and crash, but through the rest of the loop the first kick actually comes before the first beat of the bar. This is still fine, but it's probably confusing you about how to loop it. I think the point where the starts again is slightly too soon in your example. The loop should start right on the beat despite that the kick is early throughout the beat... does that make sense?

[guitfnky]

^^^that! the syncopation is in both the bass and the drums, which makes it seem difficult to line up.

one thing you can try to see where the “one” of the beat is, is to record a MIDI track of you playing the pulse of the beat (not the actual parts).

just nod your head in time with the music and you should be essentially nodding out steady eighth or quarter notes. if you record yourself playing to that same pulse you’re nodding to, you should be able to see where it doesn’t line up with your syncopation.

[Creativemind]

Yeah it's 4/4 but a really cool feeling.

I think the issue you're having is the first beat of the loop starts with the kick and crash, but through the rest of the loop the first kick actually comes before the first beat of the bar. This is still fine, but it's probably confusing you about how to loop it. I think the point where the starts again is slightly too soon in your example. The loop should start right on the beat despite that the kick is early throughout the beat... does that make sense?

Listening to this again, it feels like the first bit of bar 1 is 4/4 and the last bit of bar 1 isn't and neither is the 2nd bar. It's just what I came up with my guitar with chords and tried to put the beat and bass to it. Have a listen with the guitar in it as well. Looking at the grid on the 2nd half, it needs to start an 8th note early to loop correctly. Could this actually be 2 time signatures in 2 bars?



Looking at the pic below (which is the drums and it's Reaper btw) where the box ends on the right is where it needs to start again but look at the line on the right, of that, that's where the next bar starts. It seems to need to loop an 8th early. Where the shading ends is where it needs to loop but where the line is is the next bar.

I don't really understand syncopation btw. I was looking into it to today and I think it's accenting notes. For the bass if that's the case, it's accented on the first bass note of bar 2 and so on.

[guitfnky]

that’s definitely in 4/4. the simplest explanation of syncopation is just that you’re playing an accent on an upbeat instead of a downbeat.

[guitfnky]

I don't really understand syncopation btw. I was looking into it to today and I think it's accenting notes. For the bass if that's the case, it's accented on the first bass note of bar 2 and so on.

sort of yes, sort of no. the accent is happening before the start of the second bar (on an upbeat). because of that, the note is acting as the last note of the first bar, AND the first note of the second bar--the note is straddling the 'one' of the second bar. your kick is following the bassline which also means the kick is happening before the 'one'. that's what makes it seem like it's in an odd time signature, even when it isn't.

if you had this in Reason (or if I just had an audio file of it) I could probably demonstrate it for you.

[Creativemind]

I don't really understand syncopation btw. I was looking into it to today and I think it's accenting notes. For the bass if that's the case, it's accented on the first bass note of bar 2 and so on.

sort of yes, sort of no. the accent is happening before the start of the second bar (on an upbeat). because of that, the note is acting as the last note of the first bar, AND the first note of the second bar--the note is straddling the 'one' of the second bar. your kick is following the bassline which also means the kick is happening before the 'one'. that's what makes it seem like it's in an odd time signature, even when it isn't.

if you had this in Reason (or if I just had an audio file of it) I could probably demonstrate it for you.

Demonstrate what exactly? I could put it into Reason and e-mail it you but got nip out now, back in 3/4's of an hour.

[guitfnky]

sort of yes, sort of no. the accent is happening before the start of the second bar (on an upbeat). because of that, the note is acting as the last note of the first bar, AND the first note of the second bar--the note is straddling the 'one' of the second bar. your kick is following the bassline which also means the kick is happening before the 'one'. that's what makes it seem like it's in an odd time signature, even when it isn't.

if you had this in Reason (or if I just had an audio file of it) I could probably demonstrate it for you.

Demonstrate what exactly? I could put it into Reason and e-mail it you but got nip out now, back in 3/4's of an hour.

demonstrate why it’s in 4/4, and how to “hear” what’s going on. if you’re even interested, you probably don’t even need to send anything. I could recreate it, more or less, pretty easily. wouldn’t be able to do anything with it until later tonight anyway though.

[Creativemind]

Demonstrate what exactly? I could put it into Reason and e-mail it you but got nip out now, back in 3/4's of an hour.

demonstrate why it’s in 4/4, and how to “hear” what’s going on. if you’re even interested, you probably don’t even need to send anything. I could recreate it, more or less, pretty easily. wouldn’t be able to do anything with it until later tonight anyway though.

Course I'm interested lol! have you got Dropbox?

I've just put all the midi data into Reason.

I'm using Steven Slate Drums, the free one and the Hoffner Bass patch in Reason.

[guitfnky]

demonstrate why it’s in 4/4, and how to “hear” what’s going on. if you’re even interested, you probably don’t even need to send anything. I could recreate it, more or less, pretty easily. wouldn’t be able to do anything with it until later tonight anyway though.

Course I'm interested lol! have you got Dropbox?

I've just put all the midi data into Reason.

I'm using Steven Slate Drums, the free one and the Hoffner Bass patch in Reason.

I don't have any of that (except MIDI )--so I figured rather than doing the whole back-and-forth thing just to get my hands on the audio, it would just be easier to recreate it.

should give a fairly good idea of how it's all working. might've gotten a little confusing at the bit where I talk about how to loop it, but hopefully it makes sense. I'll try to help if there's anything that's still difficult to follow.

I made it so the video is only viewable by those with a direct link to it, so it should only be available to people here on the boards.

[JiggeryPokery]

got nip out now, back in 3/4's of an hour.

Are you sure that's not 6/8?

[Creativemind]

Course I'm interested lol! have you got Dropbox?

I've just put all the midi data into Reason.

I'm using Steven Slate Drums, the free one and the Hoffner Bass patch in Reason.

I don't have any of that (except MIDI )--so I figured rather than doing the whole back-and-forth thing just to get my hands on the audio, it would just be easier to recreate it.

should give a fairly good idea of how it's all working. might've gotten a little confusing at the bit where I talk about how to loop it, but hopefully it makes sense. I'll try to help if there's anything that's still difficult to follow.

I made it so the video is only viewable by those with a direct link to it, so it should only be available to people here on the boards.

Thanks for doing that and thanks for making it kinda private.

I'm still lost with it and I did watch it till the end. Can you sum it up? were you basically saying that you need to loop it every 16 bars to make it loop, perhaps I'll watch it again but it's long lol!

Woulda helped if the sequencer was separated so I could the see the drum track more. Too small. No offence but don't know how anyone works in Reason without the windows detached. Too cluttered.

EDIT - Just watched it again (this time on my computer which is a lot better (bigger screen than my phone)) and I see what you've done, it's looping early same as mine but at the end of the 16th bar you're having to do a little bit different added on (with the guitar I heard it anyway) to make it loop right. I didn't like the sound of the that though.

Maybe it's best to just have it loop early on the timeline and the same with the bass and just accept that's what it is. It's an 1/8th note out think it was.

[guitfnky]

I don't have any of that (except MIDI )--so I figured rather than doing the whole back-and-forth thing just to get my hands on the audio, it would just be easier to recreate it.

should give a fairly good idea of how it's all working. might've gotten a little confusing at the bit where I talk about how to loop it, but hopefully it makes sense. I'll try to help if there's anything that's still difficult to follow.

I made it so the video is only viewable by those with a direct link to it, so it should only be available to people here on the boards.

Thanks for doing that and thanks for making it kinda private.

I'm still lost with it and I did watch it till the end. Can you sum it up? were you basically saying that you need to loop it every 16 bars to make it loop, perhaps I'll watch it again but it's long lol!

the most important things to keep in mind...the first bar is different than every subsequent bar—this is what makes looping it more difficult. with that said...

-1st bar—if you’re using this in multiple sections of the song, make sure to use bar 1 as the first bar of each section (this might be obvious, but wanted to reiterate just in case)
-any subsequent bars—these are what you need to use to do your looping (meaning do NOT include the 1st bar in anything you want to loop)

so for example, if your progression goes like this (just making these up, because I don’t know the notes)
/bar 1 = G/ <<<NEVER use this to loop
/bar 2 = G/
/bar 3 = A/
/bar 4 = G/
...in order to loop this, the easiest way would probably be to split at each bar. then it’s an easy process to loop, but it takes a few more steps than you’re used to.

step A
/bar 1 = G/ <<<NEVER use this to loop
/bar 2 = G/• <<<copy this (dot indicates it’s copied)
/bar 3 = A/
/bar 4 = G/

step B
/bar 1 = G/
/bar 2 = G/•
/bar 3 = A/
/bar 4 = G/
/bar 5 = G/ <<<paste bar 2 here, making this bar 5

step C
/bar 1 = G/
/bar 2 = G/• <<<copy all three of these
/bar 3 = A/• <<<copy all three of these
/bar 4 = G/• <<<copy all three of these
/bar 5 = G/

step D
/bar 1 = G/
/bar 2 = G/•
/bar 3 = A/•
/bar 4 = G/•
/bar 5 = G/
/bar 6 = G/ <<<paste bars 2-4 here, making them bars 6-8
/bar 7 = A/
/bar 8 = G/

that will double the length for you. if you need to make it longer than that, it gets easier. you can just copy bars 5-8 and tack them onto the end to continue looping.

[EdGrip]

[bieh]

The main problem with the original audio is not the syncopation. It's what Steedus said - the fact that the last three bass notes and the drums with them are out of time with the rest of the audio. Those last three bass notes start too late to be the usual syncopated version of the bass, and too early to be the downbeat version used at the start of the clip. Those last three bass notes are the start of the new loop. So it appears an attempt has already been made to start the looping, but out of time. The solution is to cut off the last three bass notes and their drums and paste a new instance of what you have left on the next downbeat.

Obviously I've never tried to attach a Reason file to this forum before, because I've just found it won't let me do that, nor attach a zip of a Reason file. That would be the quickest way to demonstrate.

[Hearbnb888]

The start of the pattern is ugly AF ,
Does a troll masked a 7/4
I easy play 7/4 on drums and it s easy to cover with shit but my fav is 13/8

[Reasonable man]

I'm without a computer and this phone don't do audio or video unfortunately so I can't listen.. but if all else fails try chasing your time signature to 8/4 and maybe halving the bpm to adjust.
This would typically adjust a 4 to the floor beat for eg into an 8 to the floor one but keep your bar lines loop able

[stratatonic]

got nip out now, back in 3/4's of an hour.

Are you sure that's not 6/8?