Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[mravdirato]

Reason is a subscription service and they stopped selling the suite. Goodbye reason. Hello studio one for the time being. 2021 is starting to look a lot like 2020.

you mean Presonus Sphere??

[aftrshok99]

Reason is a subscription service and they stopped selling the suite. Goodbye reason. Hello studio one for the time being. 2021 is starting to look a lot like 2020.

you mean Presonus Sphere??

[JiggeryPokery]

it's definitely not $20 for some sounds. It's $20 for an always up to date Reason, all Reason Studios devices we've released and will release, and several sound packs per week.

It's not for existing users, I think that's clear enough.

An existing user can pay €120 for an always up-to-date Reason every 24 months or so, but you're suggesting with that phrasing that Reason updates between upgrades are no longer going to be a thing for those existing users. I don't believe you mean that, but the fact that's what you wrote is typically bizarre and concerning.

The cost of a subscription is nearly three times the amount of the life period of just an 18 month upgrade cycle. So factor in the cost of purchasing a full price license, then a new user getting just a subscription is really getting a far worse deal after less than two years. Assuming full price £309 + 1 upgrade @ £129 = £438 (let's say two years between the two, depending on how long one had the product before the next upgrade was released), and RS continue to keep that version up-to-date. 36 months at £20 a month is £720, and the purchaser has still probably only paid £438.

"But they wouldn't have all that content!", you keep saying.

Sure, a) they'll never use more than 10% of it! The value of content is zero unless you're going to to use it, and Reason 11 comes with a lot of content already. It doesn't need the bells and whistles of Suite because for new users, all of that content is just so overforkingwhelming.

This is why I don't get your ethos of quantity over quality, over short-term boosts rather than the long-term evolution of the software. "Oh but Reason 12!" but Reason 12 should have been Reason .... 9 at the latest.

And b) you have a bloody shop where you're supposed to be selling stuff! People could still buy exactly what other stuff they needed or wanted, individually, when they need it, at sensible prices, and you should still probably end up with an ARPU of at least £720!

If you're genuinely going to be producing "several sound packs per week", every week for the rest of your life, then you are clearly being absurd. Even if it is true, the quality of a lot of those packs is going to be lamentable.

[MFW]

Old/current users can still upgrade to new versions, just like always, and purchase RE's separately. This is exactly the same as always. New users can still buy Reason standalone perpetual license, just like always. So it is true. Of course there are changes now that there is a new service being offered, but the traditional purchase paths are still there.

If a new user went onto RS's site right now - as I did - with the intention of buying a standalone version of Reason, they'd never find it.
I sure as hell didn't.
There are two links at the bottom of the page - Products: Reason+ and Reason. Both take you to the Reason+ Sign Me Up page.
It's only when you go to the shop column where there's another Reason entry, and that one takes you to the standalones.

Going to be a bumper year for the other DAW brands gaining those lost customers....

Way to go, RS.

[Kwokamole]

Has anyone had issues switching between the authorized version of Reason and using Reason+? I tried following the instructions in the support column to run Reason+ and also installed the companion app. It still shows me as running the authorized version of Reason.

[Reasonable man]

[chimp_spanner]

Man I really hope they have that WHOLE-ASS chat hidden. It's totally valid that people have concerns, and need reassurance that their perpetual licenses still mean something, etc. But that said...it's way outta hand in there. People are just jumping straight in and attacking what *they* think is happening. Rather than what's actually happening.

[vertibration]

it's definitely not $20 for some sounds. It's $20 for an always up to date Reason, all Reason Studios devices we've released and will release, and several sound packs per week.

It's not for existing users, I think that's clear enough.

An existing user can pay €120 for an always up-to-date Reason every 24 months or so, but you're suggesting with that phrasing that Reason updates between upgrades are no longer going to be a thing for those existing users. I don't believe you mean that, but the fact that's what you wrote is typically bizarre and concerning.

The cost of a subscription is nearly three times the amount of the life period of just an 18 month upgrade cycle. So factor in the cost of purchasing a full price license, then a new user getting just a subscription is really getting a far worse deal after less than two years. Assuming full price £309 + 1 upgrade @ £129 = £438 (let's say two years between the two, depending on how long one had the product before the next upgrade was released), and RS continue to keep that version up-to-date. 36 months at £20 a month is £720, and the purchaser has still probably only paid £438.

"But they wouldn't have all that content!", you keep saying.

Sure, a) they'll never use more than 10% of it! The value of content is zero unless you're going to to use it, and Reason 11 comes with a lot of content already. It doesn't need the bells and whistles of Suite because for new users, all of that content is just so overforkingwhelming.

This is why I don't get your ethos of quantity over quality, over short-term boosts rather than the long-term evolution of the software. "Oh but Reason 12!" but Reason 12 should have been Reason .... 9 at the latest.

And b) you have a bloody shop where you're supposed to be selling stuff! People could still buy exactly what other stuff they needed or wanted, individually, when they need it, at sensible prices, and you should still probably end up with an ARPU of at least £720!

If you're genuinely going to be producing "several sound packs per week", every week for the rest of your life, then you are clearly being absurd. Even if it is true, the quality of a lot of those packs is going to be lamentable.

Frankly, I would do the year discount and get the RE's, the problem for me is after the year is up and it bumps to $20. Thats when its going to really suck

[guitfnky]

Old/current users can still upgrade to new versions, just like always, and purchase RE's separately. This is exactly the same as always. New users can still buy Reason standalone perpetual license, just like always. So it is true. Of course there are changes now that there is a new service being offered, but the traditional purchase paths are still there.

If a new user went onto RS's site right now - as I did - with the intention of buying a standalone version of Reason, they'd never find it.
I sure as hell didn't.
There are two links at the bottom of the page - Reason+ and Reason. Both take you to the Reason+ Sign Me Up page.

Going to be a bumper year for the other DAW brands....

Way to go, RS.

yeah, it’s amazing that they buried that and the RE shop. there’s no acceptable explanation for why they would make those things so hard to find, especially considering they’re saying they “just want to call attention to the new stuff”. you can do that without hiding the existing stuff.

[MarkTarlton]

this live stream is not going well, geez I have never seen so many negative comments/dislikes before. This new direction is not for me. I will be staying on Reason 10 with no plans on the current upgrade path.

[sdst]

One of the sounds in one of the sound packs is literally just an ID8 device in a combinator with two combinator knobs assigned to control the two ID8 knobs, lol.

I almost spit my coffee.

[IamFredrik]

Man I really hope they have that WHOLE-ASS chat hidden. It's totally valid that people have concerns, and need reassurance that their perpetual licenses still mean something, etc. But that said...it's way outta hand in there. People are just jumping straight in and attacking what *they* think is happening. Rather than what's actually happening.

First thing to do on live streams is to disable chat

[guitfnky]

I’m purposely avoiding looking at the comments, but it’s kind of nutty how positive a spin they’re keeping on things, given how upset the community has been for the last several hours. I kind of expected them to try and address the elephant(s) in the room right up front.

[selig]

this live stream is not going well, geez I have never seen so many negative comments/dislikes before. This new direction is not for me. I will be staying on Reason 10 with no plans on the current upgrade path.

It's basically the same 3-4 folks copy/paste posting "dislike dislike dislike" over and over again…

[aftrshok99]

I think it's good on them for leaving the chat open, shows that they aren't afraid of the backlash. We truly don't know the size of Reason users and really how many people are upset with Reason+, I'm sure they know exactly.

[earwig83]

Man I really hope they have that WHOLE-ASS chat hidden. It's totally valid that people have concerns, and need reassurance that their perpetual licenses still mean something, etc. But that said...it's way outta hand in there. People are just jumping straight in and attacking what *they* think is happening. Rather than what's actually happening.

First thing to do on live streams is to disable chat

Say what you will about all the hate on there but I'd argue it is the only (albeit feeble) way to force some form of democratic opinion on these private companies. They are so selective as it is when it comes to listening to us that we literally have to flood them with our disdain. Sucks but that's the reality. Look at gaming: Diablo, cyberpunk even Half-life Alyx. People did not get what they wanted and voiced their unrest. Hopefully those companies take a lesson away from it all. They won't.

The companies should be financially punished for sewing such disappointment. Just an opinion of course.

[chimp_spanner]

Man I really hope they have that WHOLE-ASS chat hidden. It's totally valid that people have concerns, and need reassurance that their perpetual licenses still mean something, etc. But that said...it's way outta hand in there. People are just jumping straight in and attacking what *they* think is happening. Rather than what's actually happening.

First thing to do on live streams is to disable chat

It's pretty ridiculous tbh.

"I feel screwed"
"TRea$on"
"Traitors"

Like...your software you bought and own (as much as one can own something digital) is still yours and still functions. If that ever changes, I'll march with you brothers/sisters. But ya know, keep it real. People tend to operate on raw emotion with everything. Nobody listens before they say the thing they've already decided they wanna say, because just saying things is easy. Listening and processing information requires mental labour.

What I'm hearing through the spiel is; perpetual licenses are staying. R+ is optional. Subscriptions will force us <them> to work harder to justify the price and earn the cost of the sub, the effect of which is hopefully...more revenue to develop the software, more features, fixes, etc.

Sounds fine to me. That doesn't mean though that I don't want *more* as a Reason user. It might be that I'm choosing to be positive and assume that the success of R+ comes back to us in the form of a program that's more regularly updated.

*Side note: I am bummed if devs are feeling bad though, because I love the work you all do. Don't want to sound dismissive of your concerns, cos I don't know what it's like to do what you guys do <3

[rcbuse]

Things did not go over as planned...

ReasonPlusFine.jpg (70.75 KiB) Viewed 70086 times

[MarkTarlton]

this live stream is not going well, geez I have never seen so many negative comments/dislikes before. This new direction is not for me. I will be staying on Reason 10 with no plans on the current upgrade path.

It's basically the same 3-4 folks copy/paste posting "dislike dislike dislike" over and over again…

If you look at the dislike button on the Reason+ video the dislikes are ahead by a ratio of almost 5:1 and the live stream video had much more dislikes over likes too, so it's not just a few people to my eyes.

[Kilsane]

If I test Reason + now and terminate the first month free then decide to subscribe in a few months can I still get the first year of half-paid subscription?

[guitfnky]

I mean, the pitchforks and overreactions are (of course) ridiculous, but the flip side is that their last couple of announcements/rollouts have been terrible, and frankly, it’s on RS for how confused and concerned people are.

[earwig83]

First thing to do on live streams is to disable chat

It's pretty ridiculous tbh.

"I feel screwed"
"TRea$on"
"Traitors"

Like...your software you bought and own (as much as one can own something digital) is still yours and still functions. If that ever changes, I'll march with you brothers/sisters. But ya know, keep it real. People tend to operate on raw emotion with everything. Nobody listens before they say the thing they've already decided they wanna say, because just saying things is easy. Listening and processing information requires mental labour.

What I'm hearing through the spiel is; perpetual licenses are staying. R+ is optional. Subscriptions will force us <them> to work harder to justify the price and earn the cost of the sub, the effect of which is hopefully...more revenue to develop the software, more features, fixes, etc.

Sounds fine to me. That doesn't mean though that I don't want *more* as a Reason user. It might be that I'm choosing to be positive and assume that the success of R+ comes back to us in the form of a program that's more regularly updated.

IMO This is the price companies have to pay when they want to do live streams. Either start listening to the unrest or it will just get worst. Heck look at me, I never comment on here because of all the Reason protectionism that goes on here. But I feel the same concern as others because it shows the long term path goes against the ethos of the brand (at least how some of us interpret it).

I noticed that most people seem to like free speech as long as they can dictate what we say. We wouldn't be complaining if we were happy. at least I would think! haah

[Philup]

So If I sign up for the subscription I will get v12 automatically when it comes out with no option to stay on 11?

What happens when I make a library of songs with v12 on the subscription model and then decide to take a break from the subscription due to lack of use due to personal schedule or change in finances?

It would seem that I get automatically rolled back to V11 and locked out of everything I created until I re-sub or pay for the upgrade.

In this case, I would frame the Reason+ offering more like an extend paid demo for those who use Reason as their primary DAW.

I don't like the idea of being in that situation so Ill jut pay for the upgrade when it comes out if the features include something I need.

If I was just using the RRP in another DAW for my workflow (40% of the current userbase does this) I can see the value...
Sign up for the service. Then, if you need to take a break, bounce the tracks to audio in your DAW and unsubscribe. You can still have access to your creation even when unsubscribed. With this scenario this business model inadvertently drives users away from the core DAW since it offers more financial flexibility to use other DAWs.

[earwig83]

So If I sign up for the subscription I will get v12 automatically when it comes out with no option to stay on 11?

What happens when I make a library of songs with v12 on the subscription model and then decide to take a break from the subscription due to lack of use due to personal schedule or change in finances?

It would seem that I get automatically rolled back to V11 and locked out of everything I created until I re-sub or pay for the upgrade.

In this case, I would frame the Reason+ offering more like an extend paid demo for those who use Reason as their primary DAW.

I don't like the idea of being in that situation so Ill jut pay for the upgrade when it comes out if the features include something I need.

If I was just using the RRP in another DAW for my workflow (40% of the current userbase does this) I can see the value...
Sign up for the service. Then, if you need to take a break, bounce the tracks to audio in your DAW and unsubscribe. You can still have access to your creation even when unsubscribed. With this scenario this business model inadvertently drives users away from the core DAW since it offers more financial flexibility to use other DAWs.

Exactly why they shouldn't include the DAW in the subscriptions. It should have been a RE sub, nothing more.

[chimp_spanner]

It's pretty ridiculous tbh.

"I feel screwed"
"TRea$on"
"Traitors"

Like...your software you bought and own (as much as one can own something digital) is still yours and still functions. If that ever changes, I'll march with you brothers/sisters. But ya know, keep it real. People tend to operate on raw emotion with everything. Nobody listens before they say the thing they've already decided they wanna say, because just saying things is easy. Listening and processing information requires mental labour.

What I'm hearing through the spiel is; perpetual licenses are staying. R+ is optional. Subscriptions will force us <them> to work harder to justify the price and earn the cost of the sub, the effect of which is hopefully...more revenue to develop the software, more features, fixes, etc.

Sounds fine to me. That doesn't mean though that I don't want *more* as a Reason user. It might be that I'm choosing to be positive and assume that the success of R+ comes back to us in the form of a program that's more regularly updated.

IMO This is the price companies have to pay when they want to do live streams. Either start listening to the unrest or it will just get worst. Heck look at me, I never comment on here because of all the Reason protectionism that goes on here. But I feel the same concern as others because it shows the long term path goes against the ethos of the brand (at least how some of us interpret it).

I noticed that most people seem to like free speech as long as they can dictate what we say. We wouldn't be complaining if we were happy. at least I would think! haah

I love free speech! I just hate noise and shouting and like 60 consecutive posts of thumbs down or copy pasting the SAME comment like an entitled baby screaming for direct acknowledgment in the video, all of which just makes the conversation toxic and sour and unproductive. RS absolutely need to hear what people want. Kinda hard to see what that is when a small handful of users are literally just spamming the chat with nonsense.