Propellerhead doesn't like events?

[Marco Raaphorst]

It seems that Propellerhead is not one of the exhibitors of this event https://www.superbooth.com/en/exhibitors-102.html
They seem to miss a lot of these kind of modern events. Not sure why. Anyone?

[Aquila]

They're probably terrified of getting swamped by people requesting features

[Exowildebeest]

Because those events are all marketing bullshit, like E3.

And we all know Propellerhead doesn't like marketing bullshit... Oh wait. Yeah, I don't know why they don't show up at those events either

[bstylee]

Because those events are all marketing bullshit, like E3.

And we all know Propellerhead doesn't like marketing bullshit... Oh wait. Yeah, I don't know why they don't show up at those events either

maybe because if they did no one would be left in the office to actually work on reason .. they probally shouldn't even do the ones they do being so small as everyone suggests they are and spend that time enhancing and adding to reason ?.

[Marco Raaphorst]

Is it marketing bullshit? Maybe

[Last Alternative]

ERNST... The myth... The legend... The hope for a better future. But unwilling to hire a few more peeps to 'Make Reason Great Again'.
Isn't Alleyoop the same Propellerhead staff that makes Reason, just a different name and website? I could be completely wrong here though.

Or maybe R9 is on delay ever since the new Fallout 4 released. If so we'll be waiting quite some time--it's addicting.

[Raveshaper]

At the moment that Ernst is no longer at the helm, I wonder if the company and the products they sell will see a resurgence of features and widespread attention. I hear a lot of scape goating that major oversights or confusing, isolationist ideology stems from that one guy. It will be interesting to prove that wrong, if that's what happens.

[Yonatan]

Those big events, I guess is often a waste of time and energy. Might pick some if just released something new, or a hardware. But for promoting R8 and a few free apps, no use going...

[Last Alternative]

Ernst stepped down? What happened?

[pjeudy]

Well ...why would they be at events ? can you imagine them at any event last year announcing copy and past while Reason is playing? or what about showing off there new Browser, How would double clicking to add/remove a MIDI note be perceived by the rest of the world in 2015? surely not as ground breaking? Soooo... Best to keep those kinds of innovative advancements within the REASON family.

If and when Propellerhead has something earth shattering in terms of DAW technology, RE tech , hardware and the likes...then you might see them at events. But then again they tend not to put pressure on themselves and not announce anything they might be working on.

[Last Alternative]

Secret societies do exist. Propellerhead is proof

I wouldn't put it past them that the next upgrade is nothing but a new button for something or other. $130
Nah jk. I'm sure even though they live in denial about such a huge percent of core customer displeasure, they are more than likely doing their best to win us back. Fingers crossed.

[Raveshaper]

The awkward process of answering reasonable questions with truthful answers that remain true but sound appealing can sort of be a process of anti-marketing, if you will. Here's an example of Propellerhead attending/throwing an event.

Edit: Notice how Magnus points out that it would be nice to be able to create small devices, not just big ones, all the way back in 2012. He says that right before almost going on a rant about how frustrating the SDK is. Not the kind of thing you want one of your core app third party developers saying to people who are savvy enough to ask questions that matter. Best to stay home.

[Gulale]

Ok I just don't get it. They go to NAMM show twice a year. And also what is the other one in new york? They go there too. Harrison Console goes once a year for NAMM show tell me about it.

[kuhliloach]

I once sent Propellerheads a resume about putting on events. Even Reason Tours. Reason has always been a secret, but thanks to 3rd party RE code the cat is slowly getting out of the bag.

Based on what I've read about Ernst, and the emails he and I have exchanged with each other, I feel Propellerhead Software's greatest weakness falls under the heading of company leadership. It seems they don't even want us talking about Reason! If they did this forum would still be on their website, like it used to be. Want customer reviews of Rack Extensions? Don't look to Propellerhead Software -- they hope you magically make your decision based on their unsubstantiated five star rating system. This is the same mentality that would avoid public events. Propellerhead needs to not only participate in their community, but put on their own events, and stop burying their heads in the sand.

[Yonatan]

But maybe a forum on new website platform would have taken too much work to uphold. They must have known that the collaboration service would need that attention instead.
Ph tried new things, that is good...but then if it has been good or not is another discussion. I had hopes of a more useful colaboration platform where ppl could also talk and find creative partners under common ownership of the creative rights, but still have a section of free musical colab and giveaway snippets.

[Jagwah]

...I'm sure even though they live in denial about such a huge percent of core customer displeasure, they are more than likely doing their best to win us back. Fingers crossed.

Nah man, I think they might actually hate us

[TheGodOfRainbows]

...I'm sure even though they live in denial about such a huge percent of core customer displeasure, they are more than likely doing their best to win us back. Fingers crossed.

Nah man, I think they might actually hate us

I rofl'ed.

[joeyluck]

The awkward process of answering reasonable questions with truthful answers that remain true but sound appealing can sort of be a process of anti-marketing, if you will. Here's an example of Propellerhead attending/throwing an event.

Edit: Notice how Magnus points out that it would be nice to be able to create small devices, not just big ones, all the way back in 2012. He says that right before almost going on a rant about how frustrating the SDK is. Not the kind of thing you want one of your core app third party developers saying to people who are savvy enough to ask questions that matter. Best to stay home.

I don't see that so much. I hear him talking a majority of the time about the huge benefits and attraction of Rack Extensions over other formats; which held true immediately at release and still holds true. And he has expressed his frustration many times with the VST format...

Every one is aware of the limitations. I can imagine how when working in another format for years and then having to adhere to a new format can be frustrating. But working within those limitations early on is what brought us Echobode; which IMO is one of the best Rack Extensions in the shop.

But I digress. I too am frustrated that we still don't have Permut8; a plugin that was created with Rack Extension in mind. I want to believe that Propellerhead is working to make that possible! I like to imagine that they are secretly working with Sonic Charge and other developers on SDK 3 and will surprise us with it in R8.x or R9 along with some cool new REs. And I would love to have Synplant and Microtonic as well! And some originals!

I'm just saying that I don't see this interaction or that expression of frustration early on as negative. Just a candid developer. Everyone knew the format couldn't mature overnight. So, the frustration could simply be having a vision, but not being able to time travel into the future when the format has matured. And you know software developers will find several things frustrating with any format and any OS. Maybe that's why I never really noticed.

I'm excited to see what the future holds. Wasn't aware of this event. Never heard of it. Maybe we should be glad to know Propellerhead is at home working on improving their product vs. traveling to showcase stuff people already know about?

[joeyluck]

I'd keep my eye on Summer NAMM June 23-25

[platzangst]

It seems they don't even want us talking about Reason! If they did this forum would still be on their website, like it used to be. Want customer reviews of Rack Extensions? Don't look to Propellerhead Software

Let's be fair here - a lot of the old Users Forum on Propellerhead's site was just endless batch about "why doesn't Reason do this or that" or "PH is breaking laws!" or other just negative griping about everything and anything. Now, it hardly seems fair to expect a company to host its own most negative criticisms. Do we expect soda companies to pay their own money to say, "by the way, our products not only are delicious and refreshing, but they will rot your teeth and make you fat"? That the PUF lasted as long as it did is testament to an Olympic level of forbearance on the part of PH.

[kuhliloach]

The batch could be informative. Is it better to just silence it? Or let it air out and give it consideration? It seems there is a lot to be learned from the customer base.

To compare this to soft drinks... These companies are releasing every version of their beverages except the one I want most. I see "throwback" with real sugar, fake sugars, 0% this and that, but do they ask me what I want from a can of soda--what would make me BUY a can of soda?

Clearly we find a way to hold our discussions with or without them. Perhaps the energy that went into social media efforts should have been focused differently.

[avasopht]

The old PUF became toxic and was just a major buzzkill. The batch was not informative it was just an emotional outlet for people who wanted to air their frustrations, which really is what you pay counselors and therapists for, and they're much much better at resolving them.

I felt it needed to be shut down as the whiners were just dragging down the vibe. Maybe they could have started a whining and moaning forum where they could vent away. I'm sure they could set up a subgroup on 4chan for that.

[platzangst]

The batch could be informative.

Or it could be useless.

Is it better to just silence it? Or let it air out and give it consideration? It seems there is a lot to be learned from the customer base.

Propellerhead didn't silence anything, they just stopped underwriting it. Anyone who wants to discuss Reason and its benefits and flaws can do so, here, or on KVR, maybe, or on their own blog or whatever. We just don't get to do it on PH's site and have them foot the bill.

There is a certain problem with assuming that one can "learn" from the customer base. The problem is, there is no unified customer base. For every person who really thinks Reason should have feature X, there's another person who thinks feature X is a waste of time and Reason ought to have feature Y. A lot of people assume that they themselves are a representative of "the average Reason user", when they might not actually be. Even when there are polls here on ReasonTalk, it's a mistake to assume that they are a measurement of the actual Reason customer base, since the poll can only measure the votes of people who are on ReasonTalk and who care about voting. That leaves a whole subset of Reason users unaccounted for.

But even beyond that, there is the error in assuming that Propellerhead "should" listen to its customer base, whatever that is. For example:

To compare this to soft drinks... These companies are releasing every version of their beverages except the one I want most. I see "throwback" with real sugar, fake sugars, 0% this and that, but do they ask me what I want from a can of soda--what would make me BUY a can of soda?

Should they? What if what you want is too expensive to make, and only you would buy it?

Or, consider this: Coca-Cola has had the same formula for ages, leaving aside the episode of "New Coke" (and its conspiracy theories). Coke is Coke, it is what it is and nothing else. Should it change, because some people like other flavors better? Of course, Coke can invent different flavors and package and release them along with Coke because it is a massive corporation with money to burn. PH does not have that luxury. But like Coke, it has a specific vision and intent for what it wants Reason to be. At what point should it discard its own vision, in favor of someone else's vision?


I have been hearing people talk about PH's mistakes and blunders ever since I registered with the old PUF. And no matter how many times I've heard people say that PH is making a huge mistake if they don't just listen to their customers and drop everything to bend over backwards and give the customers their every wish, somehow PH manages to keep itself solvent and moving forward year after year. So I'm inclined to put my faith more in PH's own business sense than that of the "customer base".

[EpiGenetik]

The Props stated years ago at the time when they stopped doing NAMM etc, that they were ceasing attendance of these shows because it just wasn't productive and effective to do them any more.

[kuhliloach]

My version of Coke is actually cheaper to make. Real sugar--but LESS of it... So you can taste the cola.

I like your point about thinking we are representative of the user base while not actually being it. I, for example, play musical instruments and sing. I sense the Reason customer base is more largely comprised of engineers, producers, and people who are not musicians. I also see Props catering more and more to that crowd, while pretending Reason is "easy to use" and geared towards musicians while it really isn't. Let's call them the A Crowd, and let them enjoy all the wonderful new A List RE's.