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Big news for physics nerds...

check your local news outlet... or..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35524440

Tincture wrote:Big news for physics nerds...

check your local news outlet... In other words it's difficult to do that on my phone so feel free to post links

Yep, nice finding they did there:-)

There is no aether they say, but in what medium are these waves propagating!?

Here is a nice video explaining things and stuff:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/scien ... stein.html

They aren't propagating through anything ... radiation can travel through a vacuum (or they travel through whatever they come across).

I really hope this discovery lifts the veil on the big bang and dark matter Or the lack of it IMO

Yes! Yes! Yes! They finally made it!!!
That's really amazing and great news, indeed! I just read another article about it. And as a positive side effect of this awesome scientific discovery I won 250,- Euros in a bet that I had running with a former colleague of mine. He claimed that gravity has no waveform because its not a wave anyway. I said the opposit, adding that it won't take the astronomists longer than 5 years (we placed that bet in late 2013) to find the evidence for gravity being a wave or spreading its information in form of waves.

Tincture wrote:They aren't propagating through anything ... radiation can travel through a vacuum (or they travel through whatever they come across).

I really hope this discovery lifts the veil on the big bang and dark matter Or the lack of it IMO

That concept is difficult for me to understand.
If they said "we don't know if it propagates through something and what that medium would be" I'd be more relaxed, I get nervous thinking of something compressing and expanding nothingness lol.

jappe wrote:That concept is difficult for me to understand.
If they said "we don't know if it propagates through something and what that medium would be" I'd be more relaxed, I get nervous thinking of something compressing and expanding nothingness lol.

They propagate through time-space.. You can call that vacuum or ether if you want to.

marcuswitt wrote:Yes! Yes! Yes! They finally made it!!!
That's really amazing and great news, indeed! I just read another article about it. And as a positive side effect of this awesome scientific discovery I won 250,- Euros in a bet that I had running with a former colleague of mine. He claimed that gravity has no waveform because its not a wave anyway. I said the opposit, adding that it won't take the astronomists longer than 5 years (we placed that bet in late 2013) to find the evidence for gravity being a wave or spreading its information in form of waves.

Nice story! Congrats

And yes, we are so used to our atmosphere and having mass around us that it is hard to imagine how light and gravitational waves etc propagate. Again, in my own little non-mathematical la-la land of 'Zac-physics' I imagine that 'laying out' space-time involves energy somehow. Anyway... a good day, brought a big smile to my face. I saw a prompt last night about an announcement and kept my fingers crossed

normen wrote:

jappe wrote:That concept is difficult for me to understand.
If they said "we don't know if it propagates through something and what that medium would be" I'd be more relaxed, I get nervous thinking of something compressing and expanding nothingness lol.

They propagate through time-space.. You can call that vacuum or ether if you want to.

Hmm...it would be easier to accept if it was "They propagate through an aether, and when we make waves in that aether then time-space changes in the wave".

But I guess it's not only my lack of knowledge that is the problem: ants can never understand the concept of a satellite, so who am I to assume that It's even theoretically possible to understand if some all-knowing entity explained it to me.

jappe wrote:Hmm...it would be easier to accept if it was "They propagate through an aether, and when we make waves in that aether then time-space changes in the wave".

Well isn't that kind of the same? Why do you need two things to accept it? Its kind of like saying you can only understand waves in the ocean when you imagine plastic particles being moved inside..

normen wrote:

jappe wrote:Hmm...it would be easier to accept if it was "They propagate through an aether, and when we make waves in that aether then time-space changes in the wave".

Well isn't that kind of the same? Why do you need two things to accept it? Its kind of like saying you can only understand waves in the ocean when you imagine plastic particles being moved inside..

I think its harder for me to accept since it feels more abstract than if you have a concrete material.
It doesn't mean that I reject it, it's just what it is: harder for me to accept, can't help it:-)

But I'd be very happy if someone would release me from my locked thinking here and make me go Heureka!

Questions just out of curiosity, in case someone knows:
Has it been proved that time-space itself can be compressed?
Has it been ruled out that the time-space effects we see is just a side effect caused by waves propagating in another medium?

jappe wrote:I think its harder for me to accept since it feels more abstract than if you have a concrete material.
It doesn't mean that I reject it, it's just what it is: harder for me to accept, can't help it:-)

But I'd be very happy if someone would release me from my locked thinking here and make me go Heureka!

Questions just out of curiosity, in case someone knows:
Has it been proved that time-space itself can be compressed?
Has it been ruled out that the time-space effects we see is just a side effect caused by waves propagating in another medium?

Yeah time-space can bend and be compressed. Einsteins theory was that gravity itself is a deformation of time-space and these waves basically prove it. Imagine you'd compress space to a flat surface, like a rubber plane. Now you put a heavy object on that plane - thats gravity for you. Now imagine that object is moving very fast and causing ripples in the rubber plane - thats gravity waves for you.



Edit: And btw, this discovery is not like they discovered the waves that "cause" gravity, gravity is a field like the magnetic and electric fields that make up electromagnetic waves. They discovered waves *caused by* gravity, in particular heavy black holes / neutron stars that move very fast and that these waves in fact move at c (speed of light).

Big love for the Normen

Tincture wrote:you are all arseholes... fuckin' acute destitute redundant count fodder... wanker..

Zac - you doing OK dude?

Oops.. I have no memory of this. I'm lost to alcohol at times i'm afraid. It will blow up this great job I have too. FUCK! and SORRY!

I read this:
The signal sweeps upwards in frequency from 35 to 250 Hz with a peak gravitational-wave strain of 1.0×10−21. It matches the waveform predicted by general relativity for the inspiral and merger of a pair of black holes and the ringdown of the resulting single black hole.
So does that mean these waves are specific to that event?
I am surprised the frequency is in the audible range. I don't remember hearing them.
Do y'all?
Well I guess at 1.0×10−21 they'd be pretty quiet.

Dabbler wrote:I read this:
The signal sweeps upwards in frequency from 35 to 250 Hz with a peak gravitational-wave strain of 1.0×10−21. It matches the waveform predicted by general relativity for the inspiral and merger of a pair of black holes and the ringdown of the resulting single black hole.
So does that mean these waves are specific to that event?
I am surprised the frequency is in the audible range. I don't remember hearing them.
Do y'all?
Well I guess at 1.0×10−21 they'd be pretty quiet.

Yep, specific to that event, its like picking up waves at the edge of a pond and deciding what size and speed the stone was that caused them. And even if your ear was tuned for picking up waves in gravity instead of air then yes, it would still be very very quiet

normen wrote:

Dabbler wrote:I read this:
The signal sweeps upwards in frequency from 35 to 250 Hz with a peak gravitational-wave strain of 1.0×10−21. It matches the waveform predicted by general relativity for the inspiral and merger of a pair of black holes and the ringdown of the resulting single black hole.
So does that mean these waves are specific to that event?
I am surprised the frequency is in the audible range. I don't remember hearing them.
Do y'all?
Well I guess at 1.0×10−21 they'd be pretty quiet.

Yep, specific to that event, its like picking up waves at the edge of a pond and deciding what size and speed the stone was that caused them. And even if your ear was tuned for picking up waves in gravity instead of air then yes, it would still be very very quiet

I find the whole thing quite musical. Especially the ringdown part.

Dabbler wrote:I find the whole thing quite musical. Especially the ringdown part.

Thats what I find fascinating about music in general. Everything around us is waves. In music we can hear them

I liked the part in "Contact" where Jodie Fosters character Ellie listened to the waves picked up by the telescope array and instantly noticed the changes when the signal was picked up.

Mmm Jodie foster. I always wanted her to pick up my gravitational waves. She never tuned in. Love that film. Very emotional and well thought out. They'll soon be picking up lots of these signals maybe... It'll be interesting how they try to tune things to be selective. 10

normen wrote:

Dabbler wrote:I find the whole thing quite musical. Especially the ringdown part.

Thats what I find fascinating about music in general. Everything around us is waves. In music we can hear them

I liked the part in "Contact" where Jodie Fosters character Ellie listened to the waves picked up by the telescope array and instantly noticed the changes when the signal was picked up.

I remember my friend saying that was the worst movie ever. All I could say was - I read the book.

Dabbler wrote:I remember my friend saying that was the worst movie ever. All I could say was - I read the book.

Wasn't really fantastic, true. But I liked that bit

marcuswitt wrote:Yes! Yes! Yes! They finally made it!!!
That's really amazing and great news, indeed! I just read another article about it. And as a positive side effect of this awesome scientific discovery I won 250,- Euros in a bet that I had running with a former colleague of mine. He claimed that gravity has no waveform because its not a wave anyway. I said the opposit, adding that it won't take the astronomists longer than 5 years (we placed that bet in late 2013) to find the evidence for gravity being a wave or spreading its information in form of waves.

It was very stupid of your colleague to bet against a prediction by Albert Einstein. Congrats!

Guess they have f=432 Hz