Macs are better

[Billy+]

So I'm not entirely sure why the paper clip is locking threads but it's definitely worth checking this video out as it clearly shows the performance gains from the Apple Silicon chips.

During the video the guy states that the model is a base level 8gig Mac mini which is probably the cheapest way into Apple - check it out

[Heater]

I've got an MacBook Air M1. Only 8Gb and it trucks through anything and completely silent. It's a modern marvel.

[avasopht]

It's worth checking out Data Scientist benchmarks and their opinions on this.

From what I can tell, the M1 was a whopper. It was matching NVidia's T4 and is capable of running Unreal Engine 5.

The benchmarks I've seen so far suggest it's about as good as Apple say it is. And there are really no surprises, as Intel just happened to already be working on a similar design - Apple just got their out earlier.

The M1 also opts for more specialisation. Presently general-purpose GPUs are manipulated to perform a variety of SIMD tasks. Google showed with the TPU (as has Musk and Microsoft with FGPAs) that you can vastly surpass the performance of NVidia's GPUs for machine learning (for example).

At the same time, Epic's rendering engine doesn't rely on the RTX features, creating a different set of performance demands that could favour different architectures.

It's not all about TFlops. The special-purpose parts of the M1 chip give it a leg-up for those tasks (such as their Neural Engine).

Would be nice if they could throw in something specifically for realtime DSP

[Re8et]

Does anyone knows how to authorize Audio Desk 2 on Snow Leopard Macbook4,1??? I have the original serial key from the Ultralite Mk2 but I have lost the CD...
Motu lets you download AD2 from its website but upon installation, it asks the key, which I have and the CD, which I don't...
thinking perhaps I should try to burn the installer on a CD...?
Tried, It won't work... I don't understand why if it is downloadable it won't work without CD...
I tried upgrade to Monterey with my new Mac Mini M1 and OpenCore Patcher but the install went bust... Apple didn't like my attempt.... skip from 10.6 to 12.3... Never understood why I can't skip Os...
and I can't download Yosemite from Monterey I can only download Monterey OS....
Rabbit hole... I'll never be able to use my Ultralite FW on a Mac....

[Re8et]

First time in my life I have all Aggregate Devices working in Reason!
Headphones jack as Audio card for the moment but everything works!!!

[Hoboys]

I don't know about all that. Seems like a crazy ripoff to me.

I'll brag a bit:

I realized I won't be upgrading from R11 suite in the coming 2 years or so, so I bought a fully loaded older ThinkPad P51 in mint condition on the used market, with a 4k matte display with pantone color calibration sensor and Nvidia quadro m2200 video card for a grand total of $940 including delivery. i7-7820HQ (overclockable!), has a thunderbolt port, 2x SSD.2 of 1 Tb each + 1 HDD with 2 Tb. No bloatware, no annoying apple marketing, BEST keyboard I've ever used on a laptop. I might upgrade the RAM to 64 gigs from the current 32, though, but so far there has been no need. It's also super quiet and has a special drainage hole beneath the keyboard, so you can spill all you want. This thing is unkillable. All parts are cheap to replace and you only need a screwdriver.

Yes, that i7 has only 4 cores, but the additional cores/threads on a mac add no bonus towards using Reason, so to match the single core speed of the Thinkpad, you'll actually need the latest MacBook pro. Of those, only the "MAX" cpu line can have 64 gigs of RAM, while the others are locked to a max of 32 gigs. Good luck upgrading. A new apple with similar specs to a 4-year-old P-thinkpad (if we're talking Reason application exclusively) would cost you $4k BEFORE TAXES, will not have added cpu juice, because I can overclock the i7, the fabled Retina is not colour-accurate unlike the P51's pantone system, and also the macBook pro will not have an additional HDD slot the thinkpad has, if that matters to anyone. Once again - for DAW application strictly - this is $940 vs at least $4k++, but it also murderd the mac for work with photography. I think I'll keep the extra towards buying more land, thank you.

cpu comparison.jpg (313.03 KiB) Viewed 28405 times

Macbook pro obscene pricing pre-tax.jpg (294.86 KiB) Viewed 28405 times

[Creativemind]

Not sure, if it's really raining outside would you use a Mac or stay inside a watch through your Windows? lol!

[Hoboys]

macscale.jpg (127.82 KiB) Viewed 28384 times

[avasopht]

Yes, that i7 has only 4 cores, but the additional cores/threads on a mac add no bonus towards using Reason, so to match the single core speed of the Thinkpad, you'll actually need the latest MacBook pro. Of those, only the "MAX" cpu line can have 64 gigs of RAM, while the others are locked to a max of 32 gigs. Good luck upgrading. A new apple with similar specs to a 4-year-old P-thinkpad (if we're talking Reason application exclusively) would cost you $4k BEFORE TAXES, will not have added cpu juice, because I can overclock the i7, the fabled Retina is not colour-accurate unlike the P51's pantone system, and also the macBook pro will not have an additional HDD slot the thinkpad has, if that matters to anyone. Once again - for DAW application strictly - this is $940 vs at least $4k++, but it also murderd the mac for work with photography. I think I'll keep the extra towards buying more land, thank you.

cpu comparison.jpg

Macbook pro obscene pricing pre-tax.jpg

1. M1 single-core performance is pretty solid (single-core benchmarks)
2. Reason is a multicore application.

[Billy+]

Buying a second hand PC / Laptop is probably a good idea especially if you are only interested in staying on R11 for the next few years by that time Reason should be optimised for Apple Silicon and back to its usual stability and although I initially was going to grab an M1 laptop the R12 issues and delays made me reconsider so while I've waited I'm now considering the new Mac Studio which I had no clue what so ever about and within the next 6-8 months we should start seeing M2 based devices so holding out has definitely been a good move.

But during that delay I've purchased Live suite 11 and although it's not Reason I'm more convinced than ever that moving forward I'm going to be using Logic Live and Reason (but not until it's had some improvements) and Apple Silicon is definitely looking like a much better solution than the current pc chips are offering.

[challism]

best use of a macbook.JPG (42.73 KiB) Viewed 28337 times

[Loque]

best use of a macbook.JPG

This wont work anymore after an update

[BRIGGS]

[PhillipOrdonez]

What I've learned recently, looking for a new computer to replace the fucking noisy jet i have for laptop which cost me about 1300 USD, is that while single core performance is very important, the number of cores is also very important. You want a processor with the best single core performance and as many cores as you can afford for the very best results.

The basic M1 chip is better than my current i7 8750H processor, but with a much lower power drain and the computer would be silent. If I didn't have the one I have now, I would have jumped on the Mac mini or the air.

It is also way better than the i7-7820HQ mentioned here, over two times better according to cpubenchmark in terms of score. Here is a comparison of the 3:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/In ... 4104vs2952

If I'm investing, though, it needs to be something that I will use for 8 to 10 years, which is where the mac studio at 2k is looking like a very good option. 32gb ram is more than perfect for me, I've never had more than 8 and never had any issues. With thunderbolt 4, external storage isn't an issue either. Nearly silent, anything is better than the jet i own, constantly at over 40 dB SPL.

These are three reasons I'm looking at the base Mac studio model to be my first ever Mac or Apple product, as looks like a cheaper option than a Windows machine, considering how long Mac products last for. I'm going to wait a bit more and decide, but I'm tempted! Maybe next year I'll be able to get it! I'm also open to suggestions that will change my mind!

[Billy+]

I'm going to wait a bit more and decide, but I'm tempted! Maybe next year I'll be able to get it! I'm also open to suggestions that will change my mind!

I've always built my own pc's since I was in my early 20's (I worked as a pc builder) building my own system was easy and I've built 1000's over the years (commercially) and a good few for myself but one system always seamlessly went out the door and just never needed any more support - it just works - Apple

It didn't matter what version we sold/supported every Apple device left the building got setup and worked until the client decided they wanted the newer version.

As a support engineer in late 2014 I just couldn't resist any longer and brought a Mac mini, now I knew I couldn't upgrade it so I went for a custom build and added more ram picked the maximum cpu and it's just worked since.

I don't update my os unless it's essential and am still running El Capitan because my only use was Reason and the only time I've had a problem is with ReSpire - for some reason a few patches absolutely kill the dsp and I have to bounce in place but I've also found a few patches in VK2 and KHz one that are equally as difficult.

But one thing that has always been very obvious is that as a support engineer I've never had to fix / recover / reseat anything in my Mac, it's just worked.

The only downside is an Apple Account which you don't need but most people will have, the security lockouts can be absolutely a pain in the arse - if someone is dicking about with your account it get locked and needs recovering which isn't difficult but it's the biggest pain in the ass (two factor authentication isn't the solution)

However when all is said and done I'm not looking for a new pc I'm looking for a new Mac and not because I need one but because I want one oh and I'm a Microsoft certified support engineer and have been for many years....

[Yonatan]

Impressive that even base model works so well with Logic.
But for me I will try to wait until Reason get native support for the chip.
VST3 and native Silicon support, seems to be the major needs atm.

[gullum]

I don't know about all that. Seems like a crazy ripoff to me.

I'll brag a bit:

I realized I won't be upgrading from R11 suite in the coming 2 years or so, so I bought a fully loaded older ThinkPad P51 in mint condition on the used market, with a 4k matte display with pantone color calibration sensor and Nvidia quadro m2200 video card for a grand total of $940 including delivery. i7-7820HQ (overclockable!), has a thunderbolt port, 2x SSD.2 of 1 Tb each + 1 HDD with 2 Tb. No bloatware, no annoying apple marketing, BEST keyboard I've ever used on a laptop. I might upgrade the RAM to 64 gigs from the current 32, though, but so far there has been no need. It's also super quiet and has a special drainage hole beneath the keyboard, so you can spill all you want. This thing is unkillable. All parts are cheap to replace and you only need a screwdriver.

Yes, that i7 has only 4 cores, but the additional cores/threads on a mac add no bonus towards using Reason, so to match the single core speed of the Thinkpad, you'll actually need the latest MacBook pro. Of those, only the "MAX" cpu line can have 64 gigs of RAM, while the others are locked to a max of 32 gigs. Good luck upgrading. A new apple with similar specs to a 4-year-old P-thinkpad (if we're talking Reason application exclusively) would cost you $4k BEFORE TAXES, will not have added cpu juice, because I can overclock the i7, the fabled Retina is not colour-accurate unlike the P51's pantone system, and also the macBook pro will not have an additional HDD slot the thinkpad has, if that matters to anyone. Once again - for DAW application strictly - this is $940 vs at least $4k++, but it also murderd the mac for work with photography. I think I'll keep the extra towards buying more land, thank you.

But you need to run windows on that thing

young-man-holds-his-smelly-socks-covers-nose-hand-nasty-smell-stink-legs-fungus-151956666.jpg (33.39 KiB) Viewed 28255 times

[Hoboys]

But you need to run windows on that thing

Yeah I think I've covered that massive advantage

no annoying apple marketing

[Billy+]

I haven't tried Windows 11 yet but I'm assuming it requires a Microsoft account just like 10 and although it's not essential it's hanging about like a bad smell to with all the same annoying stuff while using it?

[gullum]

But you need to run windows on that thing

Yeah I think I've covered that massive advantage

no annoying apple marketing

You only gave price advantage but not any valid reason why anyone should use windows.
I have a mac mini 2018 I have it because of the OS not because it's hardware. laptop is no advantage for many musicians because most have 3-4 controllers hocked up so not very portable anyway. I rather have a M1 mini on my table then a windows turbine under the table.
For me mac is better not because of the hardware only but mainly because of the OS.

[guitfnky]

the this vs. that thing is so incredibly pointless. use what you like.

Macs are great. PCs are great. OS whatever is probably great. Windows whatever is great. if you’re in the market for either, you really can’t go wrong either way, as long as you do your homework.

get over it and make your music.

I suppose that will offend some—which is its own form of ridiculousness.

[Hoboys]

You only gave price advantage but not any valid reason why anyone should use windows.
I have a mac mini 2018 I have it because of the OS not because it's hardware. laptop is no advantage for many musicians because most have 3-4 controllers hocked up so not very portable anyway. I rather have a M1 mini on my table then a windows turbine under the table.
For me mac is better not because of the hardware only but mainly because of the OS.

That's because there is no valid reason to use windows over macOs or the reverse. The OS is really a non-factor for me; I use both. If Reason would run on linux, I'd go with linux.

But why would you compare a fanless macmini with a full-fledged desktop, instead of a fanless windows mini and then somehow make it about the OS? And you can have a silent desktop by the way, just throw a little extra on the cooling system.

The way I see it,
Apple = design over function
whatever windows-based laptops or desktops = function over design

Either is fine, but you pay a very hefty premium for "pretty". That's what I wanted to point out.

And none of it is "future-proof" - that's just ridiculous. Actual future-proof has a whole different level of pricing on it. Think $10k+ for a laptop (which apple doesn't even offer), ¬$25k+ for a desktop. And even on the highest-end MacPro's that's an Intel Xeon, not an m1 or m2 chip. At $3-5k, you're buying 3-6 years worth of juice, before it starts going bad. 3-4 with apple, 5-6 with intel on the same dollar. But if I were to have the exact same specs on either machine for the exact same money, I'd go with apple - no doubt about it.

[guitfnky]

I think the “future-proof” question is the more interesting one. honestly, we’re already there, or on the cusp of “future-proof” for modern computers, as far as audio production is concerned. the video posted here is as good a demonstration of that as you’re likely to find.

to me, “future-proof” as far as audio production is concerned means computers getting to a point where we no longer have to think about track count or number of plugins in use. take that one small step further and include not having to worry about increasing our buffer size no matter how far you are into a mix.

there will be a point in the next few years where any new computer will barely shrug at the workload of even the most demanding projects, and to my mind, that’s when you’ve got a music production computer that’s as future-proof as we’ll ever see—one that will keep up with everything you throw at it until the hardware itself gives up.

[Hoboys]

I think the “future-proof” question is the more interesting one. honestly, we’re already there, or on the cusp of “future-proof” for modern computers, as far as audio production is concerned. the video posted here is as good a demonstration of that as you’re likely to find.

to me, “future-proof” as far as audio production is concerned means computers getting to a point where we no longer have to think about track count or number of plugins in use. take that one small step further and include not having to worry about increasing our buffer size no matter how far you are into a mix.

there will be a point in the next few years where any new computer will barely shrug at the workload of even the most demanding projects, and to my mind, that’s when you’ve got a music production computer that’s as future-proof as we’ll ever see—one that will keep up with everything you throw at it until the hardware itself gives up.

That IS interesting. But you're assuming the production and recording methods remain the same and the UI's stay isometric... that's a hell of an assumption to make. If I were to bet money on it, I'd put it on the opposite to be true.

[guitfnky]

I think the “future-proof” question is the more interesting one. honestly, we’re already there, or on the cusp of “future-proof” for modern computers, as far as audio production is concerned. the video posted here is as good a demonstration of that as you’re likely to find.

to me, “future-proof” as far as audio production is concerned means computers getting to a point where we no longer have to think about track count or number of plugins in use. take that one small step further and include not having to worry about increasing our buffer size no matter how far you are into a mix.

there will be a point in the next few years where any new computer will barely shrug at the workload of even the most demanding projects, and to my mind, that’s when you’ve got a music production computer that’s as future-proof as we’ll ever see—one that will keep up with everything you throw at it until the hardware itself gives up.

That IS interesting. But you're assuming the production and recording methods remain the same and the UI's stay isometric... that's a hell of an assumption to make. If I were to bet money on it, I'd put it on the opposite to be true.

some plugins will require more processing power, and DAWs will too, as they add more features. I still think there will come a time when new computers will far outstrip the software’s CPU demands. I suspect there will come a day when the hardware would fail before software would get to a point where it would tax the CPU enough to have to worry about that stuff.

maybe I’m just being overly optimistic, but I hope not!