Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[ScuzzyEye]

Why do one have to download over 1 gb for every little update? Is that all the stock Reason soundpack automatically overwrites every time?
I am a Mac user and only read about a bug with Windows.

I wonder about this. Is there a place in Windows one needs to go to delete unneeded stuff or does Reason to care of that with every update?

It is silly that it is downloaded every time, but that download is unpacked over the old file, so there aren't duplicates sticking around. Only keeping multiple major versions (eg Reason 10 and Reason 11) installed might result in duplicated sound banks. But even that is minimized in the most recent versions, by using a common shared directory.

[Ted Pikul]

I have no interest in the subscription model. So I can purchase the next update and any RE's I want separately. Alright...

But what about future updates? Will Reason Studios continue to sell new version upgrades indefinitely?

[ECHLN]

I think people here are mad for the sake or being mad or they think they are forced to use Reason+. Its simple really. Don't use it if you have issues with it. Some people, including myself, have been waiting for this for years because the upgrade price is far too high depending on your conversion rate.

[visheshl]

I have no interest in the subscription model. So I can purchase the next update and any RE's I want separately. Alright...

But what about future updates? Will Reason Studios continue to sell new version upgrades indefinitely?

what do you think ? lol

[WasteLand]

I suspect most users who love Reason would disagree, and would say its BIG superpower is that it’s an INSPIRATION machine.

having lots of sounds and devices sure plays a part in that, but at the end of the day, I think what we love most is that Reason is intuitive and only as complicated as you need it to be (sometimes it could stand to be slightly more so, given missing basic features, but you get my drift). it stays out of your way until you need it. that’s what makes Reason really special, IMO.

I think we're saying the same thing here to be honest. Reason is indeed the best DAW (or plugin) to be creative in, and to get ideas going. Sound Packs in Reason+ is just an extension of that. More content, more ideas, more creativity.

reason is the best DAW or plugin to be creative in. i must disagree. i don't consider sound packs a part of 'creativity', a term i don't like. that is my personal opinion, because i work from scratch (init a RE or internal instrument (or is it a RE an internal instrument, always and then start..).

perhaps others see that sound packs are an extension for their music, or perhaps, certainly.

and i experiment a lot nowadays with reason, it can be a very experimental domain, even with parsec of sonic. everything can be used for great sounds, that "you" (=me).

i can compare, i have 4 (or 5 or 6, yes) DAW's. they are all inspiration machines, for me.

i agree that reason has some edge over the other DAW's, with combinators, CV, it is quite nice, or even great possibilities. and with the built in instruments.
(but it lacks MPE.....)

but i also own softube modular (with almost every module..), voltage modular (digged deep in), reaktor (blocks, a lot of packs) and of course VCV rack.

and i agree, reason can be as simple or as complicated as you want. nice routing capabilities, other capabilities.

so, a great DAW ánd RRP.

the best DAW, or environment? for some i think, but why i am reacting like this, reason+ will only attract some type or types of users, perfect great! nice, making music, in way one is happy about, i applaud it. reason+ will not remake reason. for some type or types of users, it is uninteresting, and the uncertainty, what is next?

also, but you are he PM of reason+, so enthuasisim is of course great. but still, i don't see it as big breakthrough, and it makes really makes no real insight about what you get, over reason 11 suite, for instance... yes i believe the PX7, or what is called, will be added? my tenth FM synth? if i would go for reason+.

as matthias said, 12 is not in the making, or it is, comments contradict eachother, but is scaling coming to a 11 point update? (which is something, reason studios really, o well, customers... i say, it must do, new devices or addition, ok for 12, but scaling only for 12...). cubase does the same thing, and cubase pro 11 i bought instantly (as my third update..). adding minor improvements, with big improvements (but i had already spectralayers pro 7, for instance). but not spectacular, although all the small improvements do add up.

and that there no plans to go only for subscriptions, matthias mentioned that. but he has no crystal ball. i understand that.

this kind of uncertainty; makes people, that are already the user base, uncomfortable. (i can compare it cherry audio, great product, but some bugs, aren't addressed for a while, instead they make vst plugins, that have bugs... and i really like and use voltage modular a lot.)

so if i am being critical (criticism is a strange term, it always a negative connotation, but it simply means, make distinctions; what is what, from the greek krinein..).

it is indeed a big step for reason studios and new users. for users, i am not a long term user. although 3 years, o well, that ain't long term.

but if state "best DAW", yes it is great DAW, someone mentioned the sound quality, i am impressed still with the sound quality even of the older instruments, but maybe; my music is that mainstream, or better, it is a niche... and the sounds i make, myself from scratch, have properties, oversampling almost never improves it.

complex-1 by the way, sounds excellent.

so an excellent DAW, but thé inspiration machine? certainly, for me, one of the inspiration machines. yes.

but reason+ will only introduce more confusement, you see it, the website is completely taken over, third party developers aren't involved, and you can't get quickly to the shop.

strangely "friktion" isn't clickable, but it is still in the shop. i think this is done on purpose. to get reason 11 owners.. rent to own, is cheaper, and you have it in the end... or wait for the 50% sale.

i think you underestimate and overestimate your userbase, and a new userbase.

this like a drifting car...

i can only hope, that it will add to the reason "code", that extending the user base, will make reason better, and i already see it as great sounddesign playground. but my eyes!

many people, many? work only with reason, i do not. i work with different DAW's, because strangely it gives so much more possibilities, and i am not counting my VST(i) plugins, and editors.

so your assertion, with sound packs (the sound packs that come with cubase pro 11... a lot, i never look at them, delete them always, now you even don't have to install them. o yes, drumkits i use, but less and less.), yes can be true for some users.

how reason studios handles RE's (can't be resold, i had contact with support, they came with strange arguments, and it looked like, o well, i think not everyone within reason studios agree), the Rewards that are the strangest Rewards i have ever seen.

as others, i accept that fact about RE's, because, it won't change. as with Rewards, it makes dealing with reason studios, not more attractive, with this policy.
i will never buy a RE, that has also a VST plugin (o well, over a few months, noise engineering will have VST's.. but perhaps i like them better as RE's, it depends).

it is indeed that reason is a great DAW and Plugin, that people don't flood support, or twitter. and because, the wall.

that is why these kind of anouncements will people think twice about reason. to invest in it, in the RE's for example. when it goes subscription, i won't go with it. if it goes subscription only.
this means that the last version, will the last version for me. so i have now to consider, will i buy RE's again. with an uncertain future.

so, instead of consolidating, you introduce more uncertainties, it seems also for the third party developers.

my view, personal.

but good luck! and i must reconsider what i want with reason, i will hold on to it, i will work with it, of course, but expanding it? i have a lot, i use it all, long-term investments. most of them have very good structure of future maintanance (even IKM...t-racks, if a new version comes, all your plugins are updated for free... so it is now on version 5, version 6 will be free, if they don't change it, yes, yes, nothing is certain..), or melda.. or.. or...

[miscend]

That's correct, but if as a suite owner I decided to subscribe I would not own anything new and would default back to 11 without an active subscription I would still need to buy an actual V12 license if I actually wanted to own the update to V12 for example so the money spent on subscription would just be money down the drain.

It's good for new customers, it's pointless for a suite owner.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Subscriptions aren't for everyone but at least there's a choice now. I think this service is targeted at new customers and maybe those that sold their perpetual licences but still want to use Reason occasionally from time for time for certain projects.

[Kypresso]

I think people here are mad for the sake or being mad or they think they are forced to use Reason+. Its simple really. Don't use it if you have issues with it. Some people, including myself, have been waiting for this for years because the upgrade price is far too high depending on your conversion rate.

You do realise that it costs you more to keep paying monthly than it does buying updates and if you dont keep paying each month you lose everything?

[miscend]

But what about future updates? Will Reason Studios continue to sell new version upgrades indefinitely?

Yes nothing has changed with regards to perpetual licences.

[ECHLN]

That's correct, but if as a suite owner I decided to subscribe I would not own anything new and would default back to 11 without an active subscription I would still need to buy an actual V12 license if I actually wanted to own the update to V12 for example so the money spent on subscription would just be money down the drain.

It's good for new customers, it's pointless for a suite owner.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Subscriptions aren't for everyone but at least there's a choice now. I think this service is targeted at new customers and maybe those that sold their perpetual licences but still want to use Reason occasionally from time for time for certain projects.

Its also good for those that were still on 10 like myself and wanted 11 but couldn't afford to pay the upgrade price for the Normal/Suite version.

[WasteLand]

This has to be the worst possible time to announce a prescription service..

Family dying?
Lost your job?
Have zero money?

Well come on down to reason studios and bend over for our new subscription service!

Now with * rack extensions gone from shop!
*bug fixes not addressed!
* sound packs created by my friend bob who once saw a picture of a synthesizer!

All this and more of what nobody asked for!

Presented live tonight in fake smile o vision
; )

true, if you have the money now, you can spend it. but if circumstances change?

i see also people about conversion rate, i read, not in this thread, about australia, that is a lot of problems with conversion, high prices?

and in dollars it is the same as in euro's (don't know if VAT is included, don't know how the law works, if you buy as for instance from USA something out of europe, a yes, VAT disappears.. so perhaps, it is in euro's not that a big difference, but the dollar price...).

and €20 per month is pretty steep, with no, like kilohearts you get a voucher, even plugin alliance (i have plugins from them, the ones i like, not bad, not bad at all, on the controry), gives you a voucher, but i think that voucher will not give a lot. i don't know.

[EdGrip]

Reason upgrade licenses will continue to be available to buy, until the moment they aren't, at which point we reassess. It's been made quite clear in the blog posts and on this thread that that moment is not now.

[WasteLand]

But what about future updates? Will Reason Studios continue to sell new version upgrades indefinitely?

Yes nothing has changed with regards to perpetual licences.

matthias has stated, that there are NO plans for it, but can't rule it out. of course. managers! and CEO's...

[Skimrok]

But they ARE discontinuing the Suite model. And replacing it with a subscription/renting model. If I loose my job, I loose my ability to make music.

I'm with you on the subscribing to software, for exactly the same reasoning. If I can't make more money to renew my subscription, that puts me in a really difficult position.

But no longer updating Suite doesn't mean you lose access to it. You still have Reason 11, and all the REs in the Suite. You can continue to use those forever. You just won't get the newest RS REs as they're released. But you can still buy them if you see one that you think would be a benefit, and you'll own that forever. When Reason 12 comes out later, you'll be able to upgrade the R11 from Suite to R12 for basically the same upgrade price they've always offered.

that's good news I'm pleased with this,

[EdGrip]

As for the perennial "new features should be included in a point update of the version I already have" chat...

[MannequinRaces]

More choice isn’t necessarily a bad thing. As long as RS continues to offer a perpetual license I have no issues with this. Hopefully this brings in steadier income for them and they can put that to good use adding features and content more frequently, which will be nice, but I’ll be waiting to upgrade so it doesn’t matter, lol. As usual vote with your wallet people. This does suck for RE developers but people always want more and as long as the shop is still promoted shouldn’t be an issue. I own most of the RS REs and still but 3rd party REs. The RE ecosystem is not dead.

[MattiasHG]

Yes nothing has changed with regards to perpetual licences.

matthias has stated, that there are NO plans for it, but can't rule it out. of course. managers! and CEO's...

Look, I'm not saying we can't rule it out to be shady. It's just incredibly dishonest to go "we'll never ever do thing X" about anything. That's just being naive. No company on earth can promise something like that because who knows what'll happen in 20 years? Or 30? We can aspire to it and say there are no such plans, but you're asking me to accurately see many many years into the future.

[Ted Pikul]

I have no interest in the subscription model. So I can purchase the next update and any RE's I want separately. Alright...

But what about future updates? Will Reason Studios continue to sell new version upgrades indefinitely?

what do you think ? lol

Well, it seems to me that RS could just offer a $99 annual upgrade (with permanent license) that includes the core Reason updates (along with some select devices, perhaps) from the prior year. Then the anti-subscription customers could continue to support Reason, and the Reason+ people would still have an incentive to pay the monthly fee to get access to all RE's and sound packs. The all-or-nothing approach really doesn't make sense. If I want core Reason updates and a few specific RE's, it makes no sense to pay $240 a year to get access to everything.

[WasteLand]

i wrote a long post, several...

third party developers, you have a subscription, you end it, you bought third party RE's, and you can't use them anymore. yes get a reason lite... or intro...

i think reason+ has forgotten about third party developers, and there are great RE's (i own only some third party RE's, all noise engineering, spectra additive, some effects and utiltities, because the other RE's, they are great RE's, but i don't have use for them).

so if consolidation was the object, you have reached the other side... more confusement, an uncertain future for full licenses. yes no plans, but it can't be ruled out.

so reason+, the + means here: confusing.

[EdGrip]

what do you think ? lol

Well, it seems to me that RS could just offer a $99 annual upgrade (with permanent license) that includes the core Reason updates (along with some select devices, perhaps) from the prior year.

Isn't that... how it already works?

[miscend]

Yes nothing has changed with regards to perpetual licences.

matthias has stated, that there are NO plans for it, but can't rule it out. of course. managers! and CEO's...

Let us not speculate too much because no one here can predict the future. At this very moment in time there are no changes. You can buy updates to the upcoming version of Reason and you can still buy REs or refills in the shop. And even if the Reason Suite is discontinued your RE licences will carry forward into Reason v12.

[WasteLand]

matthias has stated, that there are NO plans for it, but can't rule it out. of course. managers! and CEO's...

Look, I'm not saying we can't rule it out to be shady. It's just incredibly dishonest to go "we'll never ever do thing X" about anything. That's just being naive. No company on earth can promise something like that because who knows what'll happen in 20 years? Or 30? We can aspire to it and say there are no such plans, but you're asking me to accurately see many many years into the future.

ok, this is a better explanation. and yes, every brand can introduce at some point a subscription. NI owners, as myself, know the rumours, if they are true, but it isn't introduced yet. it is unknown. and it seems unlikely, i think. o well, with the new shareholders....

indeed, you can't rule out, that it maybe, of course, that is honest. thanks for your honest answer, that is what people crave for, communication, honest, even if it introduces, this honesty, an uncertainty. you can't rule it out, but there no plans.

thanks! 20 years, i will take that...............

[Billy+]

Poor Ryan is going to wake up to a complete shit storm, and then have to polish it before lunch.

[Ted Pikul]

Well, it seems to me that RS could just offer a $99 annual upgrade (with permanent license) that includes the core Reason updates (along with some select devices, perhaps) from the prior year.

Isn't that... how it already works?

Yes, but I'm anticipating the possibility that RS will stop offering these kinds of permanent upgrades in the coming years.

[DaveyG]

I'm on Reason 11 but a couple of minor updates behind. If I update to the latest 11 and have no subscription can I still be authorised offline?

I'm worried I'll suddenly have to use the companion app and lose the ability to start Reason 11 offline.

[chaosroyale]

Hey there! This subscription thread is probably not the place for it*, but I will try to address your reply seeing as you took the time and thought to reply to me.

*Basically, I don't have any strong opinions on the subscription model, because I simply will not use it. If they ever take away the standard license model, then bye bye Reason. But who knows if that will be the case.

I think we are arguing across each other - my point, in a nutshell, is that if Reason is being marketed as a "sound design powerhouse" then it has to be cutting edge at sound design. Saying "well, some devices in Live are out of date too" is really just showing that Reason is out of date. (Have you seen the physics-based devices in the new Live, by the way? They look amazing.)

I like Reason, I really do. After all, I just made a commercial set of really good effects combinators for it! I still use it in my professional work. But the "window" in which I use Reason gets ever smaller. And RS refusing to update the core program is not going to fix that.

Fun fact: Live's flagships (which - in my opinion - are Operator, Analog and Tension) also haven't seen any updates over the past years.