MusicTech: Niklas Agevik talks Reason

[Popey]

I think we will all see what was said differently.

From what i see this forum is full of people from different countries, cultures, experiences etc and it is perfectly valid to come to your own conclusion as we will all see the world differently.

The only person who can truly say for sure what they meant is Niklas (although Matthias is clearly well placed to have conversations with Niklas and probably has the best understanding)

My two cents is that regardless of the true meaning the below could easily be argued:

1. competing with time with other leisure/hobby activities (netflix/stream/social media etc)
2.For R+ Competing with other subscriptions (regardless of what service) as most people have a finite amount of money for luxuries
3. Competing with other music making apps/daws for those who want to make music in the first place

Personally I use Live and RRP and am on the latest versions of both. I do not personally see them competing more complementing each other.

I do have a suggestion for RS based on the below statement from Niklas (if they read this):

“We try to participate in the community. There’s a community forum they run themselves called Reason Talk. We answer questions and try to be active on social media"

Perhaps RS could consider some sort of Reason Talk Q&A with Niklas. We could send questions in and then Niklas/RS could respond on a Q&A thread. There would have to be some sort of Terms of reference and the understanding that there are certain things they could not disclose as they may not thought of or had thought of but have not decided how to implement but overall i could see this as a great way to engage with their customers.

As a brucey bonus someone could also ask him to clarify his statement and shut down this thread

[selig]

And in the end it really doesn’t matter what anyone says, it’s what they DO that I’m trying to pay attention to…

[Eprom]

And in the end it really doesn’t matter what anyone says, it’s what they DO that I’m trying to pay attention to…

This! ^

[EnochLight]

One thing's for sure, Niklas Agevik brought the Reason community together with his interview

[avasopht]

One thing's for sure, Niklas Agevik brought the Reason community together with his interview

Well there you go, we spent our time discussing Reason instead of watching Netflix

[antic604]

...It's a few sensible people taking the statement at face value (a simple statement, by your own admission) and then a bunch of angry paranoiacs giving themselves a hernia trying to squeeze something ominous out of it

Reading posts like this or some of the earlier ones, I start to recall why I asked for my account to be deleted.

How scared you have to be, or insecure, or blinded; to write things like this?

Sad.

Zrzut ekranu 2023-10-14 190143.png (164.28 KiB) Viewed 1045958 times

[selig]

omg no.

if multiple people come to different understandings of a simple statement made in an interview, then the statement is ambiguous. that’s the literal definition of the word ambiguous.

But this absolute car crash of a thread isn't just people "coming to different understandings". It's a few sensible people taking the statement at face value (a simple statement, by your own admission) and then a bunch of angry paranoiacs giving themselves a hernia trying to squeeze something ominous out of it

Deep Breath – in – out. Ahhhhhh.
Repeat after me: it’s just software, it’s just software, it’s just software.

Oh, and please refrain from name-calling. Let us discuss facts and opinions about the software, not opinions about each other please.

[selig]

...It's a few sensible people taking the statement at face value (a simple statement, by your own admission) and then a bunch of angry paranoiacs giving themselves a hernia trying to squeeze something ominous out of it

Reading posts like this or some of the earlier ones, I start to recall why I asked for my account to be deleted.

How scared you have to be, or insecure, or blinded; to write things like this?

Sad.

Deep Breath – In – out.
I think you may already know where I’m headed with this…

[EnochLight]

Reading posts like this or some of the earlier ones, I start to recall why I asked for my account to be deleted.

How scared you have to be, or insecure, or blinded; to write things like this?

Sad.

No offense Artur, but is it possible you are making a mountain out of a molehill? For the most part people are discussing things respectfully, and frankly if someone’s opinion or argument doesn’t hold up to scrutiny or counter-arguments, is it really that big of a deal? And certainly don’t take personal offense because someone doesn’t agree with you or frames you in a way that’s unflattering. Hell, DaveyG does that to me all of the time, but we just move on.

[dvdrtldg]

...It's a few sensible people taking the statement at face value (a simple statement, by your own admission) and then a bunch of angry paranoiacs giving themselves a hernia trying to squeeze something ominous out of it

Reading posts like this or some of the earlier ones, I start to recall why I asked for my account to be deleted.

How scared you have to be, or insecure, or blinded; to write things like this?

Sad.



Zrzut ekranu 2023-10-14 190143.png

Yep maybe my comment was a little intemperate and I didn’t mean to make anyone feel personally attacked. So, apologies. But this has to be the lowest-stakes argument ever launched, and I’m just some random idiot on the internet. Keep it in perspective

[antic604]

No offense Artur, but is it possible you are making a mountain out of a molehill? For the most part people are discussing things respectfully, and frankly if someone’s opinion or argument doesn’t hold up to scrutiny or counter-arguments, is it really that big of a deal?[...]

What kind of scrutiny or counter-arguments you're talking about?

All we discuss here is subjective interpretation of Niklas' words, based on individual experience, history & hopes for Reason. It's obvious that those words will be taken differently by me, who doesn't care about RRP and doesn't use VSTs in Reason; and by someone who runs RRP in Live and forgot the DAW part is even there. The fact that this is even the case, underlines that the message isn't clear.

Also, neither of us really knows what was the plan Verdane had for Reason / Propellerhead. My theory is as good as yours.

And so while we're discussing this, let's stay respectful & polite.

[antic604]

Yep maybe my comment was a little intemperate and I didn’t mean to make anyone feel personally attacked. So, apologies. But this has to be the lowest-stakes argument ever launched, and I’m just some random idiot on the internet. Keep it in perspective.

Thanks. I'm sorry too

[EnochLight]

Also, neither of us really knows what was the plan Verdane had for Reason / Propellerhead. My theory is as good as yours.

Of course it is, so long as both of our "theories" can be criticised and open to dissection as much as the next one. Yes?

And so while we're discussing this, let's stay respectful & polite.

Well of course! That said, have I disrespected you in some way?

[antic604]

Also, neither of us really knows what was the plan Verdane had for Reason / Propellerhead. My theory is as good as yours.

Of course it is, so long as both of our "theories" can be criticised and open to dissection as much as the next one. Yes?

And so while we're discussing this, let's stay respectful & polite.

Well of course! That said, have I disrespected you in some way?

Yes & no respectively

[Stamatz]

In my opinion I think we're are reading into this too much. For me Reason fights for time with Work, Social Life, Micrsoft Flight Simulator 2020, Boating, Horse Racing, Drone/Photography, Digital Slot Car Racing (Carrera), Sleep, choirs, something like that.
So I can see what he's saying and think that what he means, nothing more. I find I spend most time with Reason during winter months. I think what Verdane and the Reason Team ha done so far is good and improved and hope more updates/changes/fixes are coming soon which can make R12 even better. I have my own gripes with R12 but at the end of the day I think for me Reason 12 is the most intuitive, logical, flexible DAW. I grew up in the analog world and Reason just makes sense coming from that era.

[dioxide]

Reason isn't in competition with Ableton, it is competition with arguing about Reason on ReasonTalk.

[avasopht]

Well, let's think of it this way.

If they really are competing with Netflix and not Ableton, then does that mean Reason is going to become a video streaming site like Netflix?

Obviously not.

Agevik clearly doesn't mean it's competing with Netflix in every possible way.

So let's put on our thinking caps.

If you could think of something, what could Netflix and Reason 11 have been competing for (and not necessarily you, but the vast majority of Reason 11 users)?

1. Money?
- a. Extra money at the month?
- b. Regular monthly commitment money? (and so, are they just talking about Reason+)?
- c. Regular-ish annual commitment?
- d. I don't mind sacrificing gas, type of money?
- e. This has to be allocated for something that makes my week better money?
2. Time?
- a. "Late night, got back from work, nothing else to do," time?
- b. "Saturday afternoon time for myself," time?
- c. "Pretty much every available hour I get to myself," time?
3. Fun?
- a. Feeling down, need to do something to lift my mood?
- b. Got a hot date, what do I bring out?
4. Something to do when not going out?
5. Something to stay up an extra hour for?

There are much more practical ways to analyze what he could have meant without jumping nose-first into conclusions and standing a better chance of getting what he more likely was talking about.

[antic604]

Well, let's think of it this way.

If they really are competing with Netflix and not Ableton, then does that mean Reason is going to become a video streaming site like Netflix?

Obviously not.

Agevik clearly doesn't mean it's competing with Netflix in every possible way.

So let's put on our thinking caps....

Jezus.

No one's suggesting Niklas meant Reason will become streaming platform. Obviously he meant time & money!

But all I - and few others - are trying to say is that there's different types of "time & money":
1) One is for serious & creative music-making (which can be fun),
2) The other is for having careless, non-commital fun (which can yield serious results).

In (1) Reason IS competing with other DAWs, plugins, music hardware. In (2) it's competing with streaming services, going out to the pub or cinema, hooking up, etc.

The point is it's a very different kind of tool that's catering to those audiences.

Some of us prefer the one that's facilitating (1), others don't mind the one that excels at (2).

That's the whole discussion.

No need to divide its participants into those "jumping nose-first in conclusions" and those that "put on the thinking cap".

If there's any divide, it's not that.

[Eprom]

Well, let's think of it this way.

If they really are competing with Netflix and not Ableton, then does that mean Reason is going to become a video streaming site like Netflix?

Obviously not.

Agevik clearly doesn't mean it's competing with Netflix in every possible way.

So let's put on our thinking caps....

Jezus.

No one's suggesting Niklas meant Reason will become streaming platform. Obviously he meant time & money!

What would Niklas care if you start up (your already payed for) Reason after dinner or if you start up Netflix?
But what he DOES care about is if you pay this month for your Reason subscription ór you spend that money on your Netflix subscription.

[antic604]

[...]But what he DOES care about is if you pay this month for your Reason subscription ór you spend that money on your Netflix subscription.

And what I'm saying is that if their ultimate vision for Reason is a product designed to address that dilemma, then I don't want it.

Because it will inevitably be simplified, dumbed down, with minimal friction, but lacking complexity. I personally object to such a direction.

I'll choose Bitwig, Live or Studio One instead, then.

[antic604]

It just hit me (bad faith interpretation ).

Reason will not compete with other DAWs, simply because it will require them to run.

[Eprom]

[...]But what he DOES care about is if you pay this month for your Reason subscription ór you spend that money on your Netflix subscription.

And what I'm saying is that if their ultimate vision for Reason is a product designed to address that dilemma, then I don't want it.

Nor would I.
Forced subscription is also the reason why I ditched Photoshop for Affinity. I have no issue paying for software, but I want to be the sole owner.

[antic604]

[...]Forced subscription is also the reason why I ditched Photoshop for Affinity. I have no issue paying for software, but I want to be the sole owner.

Actually I'd be keen on jumping to R+.

But I have conditions / expectations:
- 1-2 "big" devices a year (like Objekt, Friktion, Algoritm, Complex-1, B-VX, etc.) + a smaller Player or Utility,
- new version of DAW, with actual workflow updates, every 2-3 years,
- sound packs that are actually useful to me (sure, that's very subjective - I'm sure some of them are),

Then I'd gladly support them with a stable stream of money.

[Eprom]

[...]Forced subscription is also the reason why I ditched Photoshop for Affinity. I have no issue paying for software, but I want to be the sole owner.

Then I'd gladly support them with a stable stream of money.

I'll explain my issue.

A few months ago the company I composed music for asked me to do make an altered version for them, but I made the original a few years ago in Reason but switched to Logic Pro X in the meantime. IF I had used Reason as a subscription instead of a perpetual version, I wouldn't have acces to my old songs anymore.
Paying again to get acces to my own songs would be like paying randsom money to RS to release them to me.

I pay for something to have the right to use it whenever I want/need. Even if that is years later.

[avasopht]

Well, let's think of it this way.

If they really are competing with Netflix and not Ableton, then does that mean Reason is going to become a video streaming site like Netflix?

Obviously not.

Agevik clearly doesn't mean it's competing with Netflix in every possible way.

So let's put on our thinking caps....

Jezus.

No one's suggesting Niklas meant Reason will become streaming platform. Obviously he meant time & money!

But all I - and few others - are trying to say is that there's different types of "time & money":
1) One is for serious & creative music-making (which can be fun),
2) The other is for having careless, non-commital fun (which can yield serious results).

In (1) Reason IS competing with other DAWs, plugins, music hardware. In (2) it's competing with streaming services, going out to the pub or cinema, hooking up, etc.

The point is it's a very different kind of tool that's catering to those audiences.

Some of us prefer the one that's facilitating (1), others don't mind the one that excels at (2).

That's the whole discussion.

No need to divide its participants into those "jumping nose-first in conclusions" and those that "put on the thinking cap".

If there's any divide, it's not that.

Relax dude, I'm in agreement with everything you said.

The reason I asked it like that is because a more well defined question can, once it's clear that it's not a gotcha question, bring things back to things we can all agree on.

So I wasn't saying nobody is able to put on their thinking caps.

I wanted the exact answer you gave.