Announcing Reason 13

[avasopht]

Let's make it a wager.

If Reason 13 does have features not yet announced (even if it's a point update) you are obliged to upgrade.

There will be some new rack features for sure (copy Europas engines, new combinator knobs, copy slots in mimic....)
I am talking here about essential DAW features nearly every other DAW has: Clip launcher, audio file preview in browser, track folders, video player, punch in / out, volume knobs in sequencer or markers. So if at least 3 of them are implemented to spread trust in the DAW and motivate for future: OK, then I will update.

No, just one of them.

That was the extent of your original claim. No moving the goal posts - especially to an unreasonable high degree.

[tewoc]

You're calling the wish for at least 3 new squencer features* an "unreasonable high degree"? Come on...

*nearly every other DAW has since many years

[avasopht]

You're calling the wish for at least 3 new squencer features* an "unreasonable high degree"? Come on...

*nearly every other DAW has since many years

For the wager based on your prediction that not a SINGLE extra said feature would appear.

Obviously that's what I meant. Come on

[jam-s]

Another way of looking at it, working on a house track, you have a nice piano sequence going, then you add a bass, then strings, you've added a 4 on the floor kick drum just for now, you've spread the parts out now (sequenced) the parts for about a 2 miniute track now, you're loving what you have going, you're creative juices are flowing, you're in the zone. Now you need 2 or 3 vocal samples from a folder on your comp, you find 3 that are perfect but they're not in time or key, you need them to be in key fast, 5 minutes or even 10 faffing around kills your flow, you've lost it. The amount of times this has happened in Reason is untrue. We need a really decent amount of sample tools in the browser, tempo match with half speed / double speed, be able to change the pitch quickly (while tempo / speed isn't altered) in semitones, bpm display of audio with a wave display where you can quickly trim any silence off the beginning and end (in the browser), play through track option to audition with effects, key match too, reverse auditioning and crucially drag and drop the sample into the sequencer while all changes remain the same when you do. Ableton, FL Studio, Logic and Reaper have had all these features for years now, they're crucial in this day and age, the amount of times it's stopped me in my tracks is too many to mention.

Ok, I've solved the problem by using Reaper with the RRP but it's time for Reason to catch up.

I've solved this pretty much for me by using the old 5.3.9 version of LoopCloud (the version before they went down the subscription/ai/enshittification route) as my sample browser inside of Reason. It's got all the feature I would wish Reason's new browser had, but which it likely wont have.

[djsmex]

It's interesting to follow this thread and everyone has their own wishes but ultimately reason studios are a business looking to make money. Personally I think the reason user base are generally loil but to win over new Reason users, I think v13 isn't going to do it.
Reason has a lot going for it, as to my knowledge, I don't know of another DAW that can open and play a v1 file in v12. Also the visual rack with visual rooting is unique to Reason and can make for a quick learning curve from virtual to/from hardware. The RRP I think was a great choice and has probably extended their market share a little.
However, it's a shame accessibility wasn't on the table for v13 as other DAWs take that market share. Historically accessible music software was unheard of but over recent years this has changed with companies like Native-Instruments, Arturia, Novation and now Ableton all working on accessibility even VST code base making the effort. This isn't done to be nice, it is being done to gain the market share.
I'm sure RS have their own justifications in making these decisions and I hope at some point in the future RS are able to look at accessibility and extend their market share here.

[SoundObjects]

With all those missing featurs mentioned here - it's nearly impossible to make decent music with
a Reason DAW like many artists actually have done
Haveing other DAWs (Ableton Live, Bitwig, Reaper,FL studio) I recently started Reason up again and now have
lots of fun - even with all it's limitatons.
Hope not RS stopping make downloadable PDF manuals (like Ableton Live ver.12)
Thus I won't be able to use the Reason DAW any longer

[r_ek]

Reason has a lot going for it, as to my knowledge, I don't know of another DAW that can open and play a v1 file in v12.

You can open Ableton v1 sets with v12
But ProTools is another story

Anyway I just hope they give RRP some love in 13

[iTrensharo]

...
Converting samples to FLAC isn't really something I'd personally ever do for a couple of reasons:

1. If you decode them in real time, they use up more CPU than WAV/AIFF files, and
2. While many DAWs do support importing Compressed Audio, many of them will forcibly convert them to WAV - so, you aren't actually saving disk space at all. You are just changing how the disk space usage is allocated. Depending on how that conversion is handled (some will convert to 32-Bit WAV files, even if the source was 16- or 24-Bit), you may end up using MORE space doing it that way.
...

I have X TB samples encoded as FLAC. I have a sound browser that let's me preview what I'm looking for. When I found the .. say 20 flute samples I was looking for, I drop the files into my audio editor or DAW. That audio software would then convert the 1 MB FLAC samples into 2 MB WAV samples and put them into a temporary working folder. I can then cut, resample and otherwise work with those WAV files.

That process takes up no additonal realtime computation work and takes up just 2 MB of additonal (temporary) disk space. I can't see any issues with that.

Decompressing and Decoding Compressed Audio Files takes additional computational work if done in real-time, unless the DAW converts Compressed Files to WAV on import.

Cubase will convert compressed files on import, for example. So will WaveLab. Samplitude Pro X defaults to doing this.

Lots of DAWs will do this because the compressed files are often problematic and it's a waste of compute capacity to have tons of layered compressed audio files being decompressed and decoded in real time.

Honestly, I'm not even sure why this is debatable.

There is a reason why Uncompressed files like AVI and WAV are a thing. It's precisely because it avoids the computer's need to waste resources Decompressing and Decoding. The larger file sizes are simply the compromise we deal with for those other benefits.

I am not saying you need to care about it, but those are facts. I was simply stating why I don't do it. Large HDDs or SATA SSDs to hold sample content aren't exactly breaking the bank, can be repurposed in new/additional PCs, etc. in comparison to CPUs that are obsoleted by MOBO/PC upgrades. Most people could convert to 320k MP3 or AAC and are unlikely to hear the difference between that and a FLAC file, anyways.

[iTrensharo]

The amount of product management experts in these forums is really extraordinary.

Some people in this thread have worked in software development, and have seen both well and badly managed products, and know what it takes to deliver the types of things people are asking for. They have a more informed vantage point than many who are disagreeing.

Not all of us went to college for a useless degree

Wouldn't go back to software development, though. Too much constant education for not enough payoff. You're basically always in school, especially if you want to maintain a wide options base in terms of employment.

[supersmarter]

Decompressing and Decoding Compressed Audio Files takes additional computational work if done in real-time, unless the DAW converts Compressed Files to WAV on import.

Cubase will convert compressed files on import, for example. So will WaveLab. Samplitude Pro X defaults to doing this.

Lots of DAWs will do this because the compressed files are often problematic and it's a waste of compute capacity to have tons of layered compressed audio files being decompressed and decoded in real time.

Honestly, I'm not even sure why this is debatable.

There is a reason why Uncompressed files like AVI and WAV are a thing. It's precisely because it avoids the computer's need to waste resources Decompressing and Decoding. The larger file sizes are simply the compromise we deal with for those other benefits.

Honestly, I am not even sure if are you confused or simply don't understand the laws of physics. es FLAC is nothing more than a compressed WAV. Let's look at it like that for the purpose of discussion.

Why you wouldn't want more space? I wouldn't make a fuss if space was not a thing but it is. Even in 2024.

And don't get me on compressing and decompressing. Opening 38 tracks of an FLAC-based session vs the same session in WAV takes roughly 3 seconds more on my computer. When I say open I am not speaking of pre pre-saved session I am telling you about dragging 38 tracks. I just tried. Compression and decompression is a nonissue.

Besides, if you still try to convince me that lossless compression is a bad thing then explain to me the use of zip format, ReasonStudios' own sample compression when you save samples with song, etc.etc.

[iTrensharo]

Decompressing and Decoding Compressed Audio Files takes additional computational work if done in real-time, unless the DAW converts Compressed Files to WAV on import.

Cubase will convert compressed files on import, for example. So will WaveLab. Samplitude Pro X defaults to doing this.

Lots of DAWs will do this because the compressed files are often problematic and it's a waste of compute capacity to have tons of layered compressed audio files being decompressed and decoded in real time.

Honestly, I'm not even sure why this is debatable.

There is a reason why Uncompressed files like AVI and WAV are a thing. It's precisely because it avoids the computer's need to waste resources Decompressing and Decoding. The larger file sizes are simply the compromise we deal with for those other benefits.

Honestly, I am not even sure if are you confused or simply don't understand the laws of physics. es FLAC is nothing more than a compressed WAV. Let's look at it like that for the purpose of discussion.

Why you wouldn't want more space? I wouldn't make a fuss if space was not a thing but it is. Even in 2024.

And don't get me on compressing and decompressing. Opening 38 tracks of an FLAC-based session vs the same session in WAV takes roughly 3 seconds more on my computer. When I say open I am not speaking of pre pre-saved session I am telling you about dragging 38 tracks. I just tried. Compression and decompression is a nonissue.

Besides, if you still try to convince me that lossless compression is a bad thing then explain to me the use of zip format, ReasonStudios' own sample compression when you save samples with song, etc.etc.

The laws of Physics?

I can't...

[spacepluk]

The amount of product management experts in these forums is really extraordinary.

Some people in this thread have worked in software development, and have seen both well and badly managed products, and know what it takes to deliver the types of things people are asking for. They have a more informed vantage point than many who are disagreeing.

Not all of us went to college for a useless degree

Wouldn't go back to software development, though.

Well, I work in software myself and I have done so for around 25 years... and I'm calling bullshit on everybody who claims to know better than them what to do with their own product. It's just arrogant and naive imho.

[iTrensharo]

Some people in this thread have worked in software development, and have seen both well and badly managed products, and know what it takes to deliver the types of things people are asking for. They have a more informed vantage point than many who are disagreeing.

Not all of us went to college for a useless degree

Wouldn't go back to software development, though.

Well, I work in software myself and I have done so for 25 years or so... and I'm calling bullshit on everybody who claims to know better than them what to do with their own product. It's just arrogant and naive imho.

I don't think anyone speaking on it cares that much - especially not enough to take it personally enough to resort to cussing and name calling

The opportunity cost was paid a decade or more ago. They can't right the ship relative to other competitors. There is no way they can make up the time they have lost not developing the sequencer vs. what others have done - while others are still improving theirs.

They're going to have to settle for what they can get from the small, mostly stable (and loyal) user segment they have been left with.

The same thing we are reading in this thread - defensively - has been stated before R11 and R12 released. Both of those have done little to move this sequencer forwards, and R13 is much the same. That sounds cute, but reality is unbiased.

[spacepluk]

Reality seems to be anything but that these days.

[tewoc]

There is no way they can make up the time they have lost not developing the sequencer vs. what others have done - while others are still improving theirs.

There is a way: Develop at least the most basic sequencer organizer-functions other DAWs implemented 10 years ago - that would be enough for now.

[spacepluk]

I didn't write that.

[mimidancer]

I was so hopeful in the opening days after the announcement. But it looks like no matter what they do in Reason 13, it will not be good enough for the Reason does not have the Feature that makes me like another DAW better crowd. We all have a feature we would like. And there are things we could have no FUQs to give. News flash they are different for each one of us. When I look at the ideas thrown about here I sometimes think that would be cool other times I think that is dumb AF. They do not have unlimited resources to do everything. So many cool things are coming. Try to enjoy what we are getting. It looks pretty cool. You still have loopcloud, Live, Cubase, and Logic if they don't do your feature. Chin up, life is too short to be this unhappy. Reason is eff-ing awesome. Your glass is already half full. Be well, and make the music you love.

[madmacman]

In defense of Reason Studio: a lot of other vendors are now doing the same (DAWs as well as VST plugins) as I easily can see in my “Music” folder.

What other vendors are you seeing do this? I have a lot of plug-ins, and literally none of them do this (save for the aforementioned Melodyne).

Back from vacation, and here we go:

Arturia
Audio Damage
Celemony (Melodyne) - as you already stated
Spitfire Audio
Synapse Audio
Wave Alchemy

And these are (of course) only the one that I have installed & use.

[dakta]

I was so hopeful in the opening days after the announcement. But it looks like no matter what they do in Reason 13, it will not be good enough for the Reason does not have the Feature that makes me like another DAW better crowd. We all have a feature we would like. And there are things we could have no FUQs to give. News flash they are different for each one of us. When I look at the ideas thrown about here I sometimes think that would be cool other times I think that is dumb AF. They do not have unlimited resources to do everything. So many cool things are coming. Try to enjoy what we are getting. It looks pretty cool. You still have loopcloud, Live, Cubase, and Logic if they don't do your feature. Chin up, life is too short to be this unhappy. Reason is eff-ing awesome. Your glass is already half full. Be well, and make the music you love.

This. Long live

[selig]

There is no way they can make up the time they have lost not developing the sequencer vs. what others have done - while others are still improving theirs.

There is a way: Develop at least the most basic sequencer organizer-functions other DAWs implemented 10 years ago - that would be enough for now.

TEWOC: you have attributed this post to the wrong person, please correct it!

[tewoc]

There is a way: Develop at least the most basic sequencer organizer-functions other DAWs implemented 10 years ago - that would be enough for now.

TEWOC: you have attributed this post to the wrong person, please correct it!

I can't.

[jjpscott01]

I was so hopeful in the opening days after the announcement. But it looks like no matter what they do in Reason 13, it will not be good enough for the Reason does not have the Feature that makes me like another DAW better crowd. We all have a feature we would like. And there are things we could have no FUQs to give. News flash they are different for each one of us. When I look at the ideas thrown about here I sometimes think that would be cool other times I think that is dumb AF. They do not have unlimited resources to do everything. So many cool things are coming. Try to enjoy what we are getting. It looks pretty cool. You still have loopcloud, Live, Cubase, and Logic if they don't do your feature. Chin up, life is too short to be this unhappy. Reason is eff-ing awesome. Your glass is already half full. Be well, and make the music you love.

Exactly. I do have to point out though this isn't exclusive to Reason by any means. I also frequent forums for Studio one, FL, Cubase, Bitwig, Reaper, Ableton, and Samplitude Pro X and the conclusion ive come to is the internet simply hates DAW's in 2024.

What's even more amusing is they all use other DAW's as examples of how their own preferred software falls short. Users want Reaper to look and have all the additional content Studio One has but stay efficient and lightweight. Oh and it also needs Reason's Rack, Bitwig's modularity, Ableton's Clip Launcher, and FL Studio's Piano Roll. But wait, don't do too much or it'll be bloated like Cubase or Samplitude Pro X. And if it lacks any of these things, its because the company hates its base and doesn't listen to its core users.

The fact is all of these pieces of software are ridiculously capable and powerful. I made more and better music in 2008 with a copy of Protools 7 Le rewired with Reason 3.0 than I ever have since. Reason at this point is a absolute monster piece of software full of features we would've killed for years ago. Not making good music with Reason or any other modern DAW at this point is not an issue of "lacking the tools". I promise.

[tewoc]

I was so hopeful in the opening days after the announcement. But it looks like no matter what they do in Reason 13, it will not be good enough for the Reason does not have the Feature that makes me like another DAW better crowd. We all have a feature we would like. And there are things we could have no FUQs to give. News flash they are different for each one of us. When I look at the ideas thrown about here I sometimes think that would be cool other times I think that is dumb AF. They do not have unlimited resources to do everything. So many cool things are coming. Try to enjoy what we are getting. It looks pretty cool. You still have loopcloud, Live, Cubase, and Logic if they don't do your feature. Chin up, life is too short to be this unhappy. Reason is eff-ing awesome. Your glass is already half full. Be well, and make the music you love.

Exactly. I do have to point out though this isn't exclusive to Reason by any means. I also frequent forums for Studio one, FL, Cubase, Bitwig, Reaper, Ableton, and Samplitude Pro X and the conclusion ive come to is the internet simply hates DAW's in 2024.

What's even more amusing is they all use other DAW's as examples of how their own preferred software falls short. Users want Reaper to look and have all the additional content Studio One has but stay efficient and lightweight. Oh and it also needs Reason's Rack, Bitwig's modularity, Ableton's Clip Launcher, and FL Studio's Piano Roll. But wait, don't do too much or it'll be bloated like Cubase or Samplitude Pro X. And if it lacks any of these things, its because the company hates its base and doesn't listen to its core users.

The fact is all of these pieces of software are ridiculously capable and powerful. I made more and better music in 2008 with a copy of Protools 7 Le rewired with Reason 3.0 than I ever have since. Reason at this point is a absolute monster piece of software full of features we would've killed for years ago. Not making good music with Reason or any other modern DAW at this point is not an issue of "lacking the tools". I promise.

You are right with many things, but markers, track folders or auto-colors in 2024 no other DAW has forgotten. Or do you know some major DAW without those simple features?

[Whoopdee]

There is already a stereo tool plugin commercially available called Stereo Tool.https://www.thimeo.com/stereo-tool/

Might want to change the name.

[Neo]

There is already a stereo tool plugin commercially available called Stereo Tool.https://www.thimeo.com/stereo-tool/

Might want to change the name.

Kubrick might have had something to say as-well hey.

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