Mixing, Exporting, Levels, Sigh.

[elMisse]

I only write music and do a quick mix. And I always just leave it there.
I have bought some REs for dynamic processing. The Selig stuff etc.

This is actually the first time I noticed how much louder everything else on f.ex. soundcloud is.
Ok, my music is also a bit special, but would certainly benefit from being closer to same level with everything else out there, without losing very much dynamics. I think my BIG outputmeter peaks at -2 or smth, so that is why I cannot understand the problem.

Could you give me some simple advice how to do this? It is also very much possible that I bypass something important when I "export audio" from Reason. Is that even the way I should be doing it...?

Pretty embarrassing moment after 20+ years of making music and playing

[JCBendock]

This software is a standard and simple way of getting your mix loud.
https://www.izotope.com/en/products/mas ... ozone.html
There are also ways to do this in reason using their built in mastering tools, but in my opinion the results are lacking and take more time and effort to make sound good then it does to make the song. (If you want I could make a quick tutorial)

Either way for quality its gonna cost some money, so for me its more about what's the fastest way to get there with the least amount of brain damage. I personally deliver several audio masters every week for a TV broadcast, the turn around time is very tight. Due to the fact that reason lacks a lot of basic functionality required for professional audio(not music) I'm forced to use another DAW. I use izotopes tools alot outside of reason and can confirm that they perform great their presets get you 90% there, couple tweeks and your done. Anyways hope this helped some.

[ravisoni]

Is it possible to post one of your reason files here? It would help others (I say others because I personally know very little about metering) to do some troubleshooting much faster than a back and forth.

[Tumble]

http://www.musictech.net/2016/10/mastering-guide-2016/
https://www.masteringthemix.com/blogs/l ... nd-youtube

[elMisse]

But if I just "export audio" from reason9, does it somehow bypass mastering effects or smth?

[Djstarski]

If you spend more time and effort mixing your track then mastering will be simple . All you`ll need to do is
glue = compression
balance frequencies = EQ
volume = Limiter

This is your basic setup for mastering . But remember try and get your mix as close to the finish line as possible . Also import a reference track and watch the meters so you know what your aiming for .

[stratatonic]

This is actually the first time I noticed how much louder everything else on f.ex. soundcloud is.
Ok, my music is also a bit special, but would certainly benefit from being closer to same level with everything else out there, without losing very much dynamics. I think my BIG outputmeter peaks at -2 or smth, so that is why I cannot understand the problem.

Could you give me some simple advice how to do this? It is also very much possible that I bypass something important when I "export audio" from Reason. Is that even the way I should be doing it...?

Check out this video. It's cued up to what I think you are wondering about - but I'd encourage you to check out the whole vid as well.

I'll leave it to you to decide whether you need to buy a Rack Extension to bump up your levels, or use the stock Maximizer in Reason, or look at buying a standalone application.


.

[jonheal]

Perhaps another option is the Kratos 2 Maximizer, which happens to be on sale today.

https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... maximizer/

[selig]

But if I just "export audio" from reason9, does it somehow bypass mastering effects or smth?

No - what you hear is what you get, assuming of course you are listening to the main outputs of Reason (which is the default).

[ejanuska]

I'm listening to Happy Feet on the OPs soundcloud right now and I don't think there are any issues with the levels or volume.

[ravisoni]

Also another thing I'd like to add is if you have any inbuilt audio enhancements (which is often the case with realtek), you may want to turn them off. This is important with windows based PCs as when you switch to the primary driver, and if you have audio enhancements on, it will usually be louder than an ASIO based session in reason.

[Jivethompson]

I suggest you get the Loudnessmeter from Flower Audio (https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... ess-meter/) only 9 bucks now and probably the best RE i've ever bought for mastering. Perfect to use with reference tracks as well!!

My basic set up for mastering:

- eq (cutting some, boosting a tiny bit)
- stereo splitter for M/S processing (and mono check)
- Multiband compression (4Dyne)
- (perhaps another EQ)
- Kratos Maximizer
- Loudnessmeter

And remember, mastering already starts (imo) when you mix your track! Make sure every instruments needs to do their job without bringing in annoying or unnecessary frequencies. That way there is more room for your track to be as loud as possible...without losing too much dynamics. So no more quicky mixes

[elMisse]

I'm listening to Happy Feet on the OPs soundcloud right now and I don't think there are any issues with the levels or volume.

Seriously? Maybe I am wrong from some point of view yes.

The thing is, that when I listen to almost any random stuff there I now always compare the volumelevels to my tunes and notice I have to crank volume up like 5-10 steps.

So what I'm saying is that there must be something wrong in my process, because I thought I am really peaking very close to 0db in outputmeter, and I use light maximizing (ozone).

[elMisse]

Also another thing I'd like to add is if you have any inbuilt audio enhancements (which is often the case with realtek), you may want to turn them off. This is important with windows based PCs as when you switch to the primary driver, and if you have audio enhancements on, it will usually be louder than an ASIO based session in reason.

I have a Focusrite asio-interface.

[elMisse]

I suggest you get the Loudnessmeter from Flower Audio (https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/ ... ess-meter/) only 9 bucks now and probably the best RE i've ever bought for mastering. Perfect to use with reference tracks as well!!

And remember, mastering already starts (imo) when you mix your track! Make sure every instruments needs to do their job without bringing in annoying or unnecessary frequencies. That way there is more room for your track to be as loud as possible...without losing too much dynamics. So no more quicky mixes

I hear you! much to learn, many youtubevideos to watch.
Checking out the loudnessmeter.

[selig]

I'm listening to Happy Feet on the OPs soundcloud right now and I don't think there are any issues with the levels or volume.

Seriously? Maybe I am wrong from some point of view yes.

The thing is, that when I listen to almost any random stuff there I now always compare the volumelevels to my tunes and notice I have to crank volume up like 5-10 steps.

So what I'm saying is that there must be something wrong in my process, because I thought I am really peaking very close to 0db in outputmeter, and I use light maximizing (ozone).

Like others have said, a loud mix starts with a loud arrangement, using loud sounds, etc. If you wait until mastering to achieve your desired loudness level, you'll potentially be doing a LOT of work (processing) to achieve that goal. Making a lot of assumptions with those comments, of course.

Do you listen to reference tracks when building your own? It could be helpful, not necessarily every time, but at least for getting a better handle on getting things right from the start and not "fixing it in the mix" (or mastering).

Also, loudness comes from a few areas. One is the frequency spectrum, so understanding the basic ideas behind the Fletcher/Munson curves is important IMO. The other is the relationship between peak and average levels. The Big Meter (set to VU + Peak) is helpful here. A "raw" sound such as a kick or snare (recorded yourself, not a sample) can have a peak to average ratio (aka "crest factor") as high as 20 dB or higher. A mastered mix that sounds "loud" can have a much lower crest factor, averaging around 12 dB but ranging as low as 6-8 dB for VERY compressed/distorted mixes to as high as 16-18 dB for a more "open" mix (often with more acoustic instruments). Genres such as jazz and classical, or solo acoustic tracks can have much higher crest factors (over 20 dB) because very little (if any) dynamic range compression or level "riding" typically takes place.

Compare the crest factor of tracks you like and which you want to match in loudness. Then you will have a target to match, and you should be able to come close to this level when mixing, and get the rest of the way when mastering. Hopefully when mastering you'll only need to do a few dBs brick wall limiting, maybe as much as 6 dB or so for more "heavy" sounding genres.

This is a subject which can generate a LOT of differing opinions, so take in all the comments you can and see which approach works best for what you're personally trying to achieve! As with all creative subjects, comments such as mine that are given without hearing your musical examples are just a shot in the dark - take them with a large grain of salt knowing there are no absolute rules with the creative arts.

Bottom line: If it sounds good, it IS good.

[elMisse]

Bottom line: If it sounds good, it IS good.

Yeah, but I must confess I sometimes misjudge very good music as good mixing too when I listen to new music It kind of overrides all mixing flaws... maybe happens to professionals too sometimes? Gotta learn.

I made this one a bit more compressed and louder yesterday evening and uploaded the new version. It still bugs me that I have to turn up volume so much when my own songs start in soundcloud playlists. Maybe I'm getting closer.

[kuhliloach]

Perhaps make individual tracks naturally louder before they leave the rack, so that the signals are 'prepared' before they hit the SSL. I also have Flower, as mentioned above, and I can agree that it is very useful.

[selig]

Bottom line: If it sounds good, it IS good.

Yeah, but I must confess I sometimes misjudge very good music as good mixing too when I listen to new music It kind of overrides all mixing flaws... maybe happens to professionals too sometimes? Gotta learn.

I made this one a bit more compressed and louder yesterday evening and uploaded the new version. It still bugs me that I have to turn up volume so much when my own songs start in soundcloud playlists. Maybe I'm getting closer.

The more "transient" the sound, the softer it will sound compared to more "sustaining" sounds. This is because our ears "average" the sound level over time. So your track, which starts with hand claps and short Rhodes chord stabs, is going to need more level than something like a B3 pad or distorted guitar power chords.

Even looking at the waveform on soundcloud I can see plenty of parts that are not as loud as others. Again, a loud mix starts with a loud arrangement - two track playing on their own will not often sound as loud as a full band with drums and bass. The intro also isn't not using as much of the frequency spectrum as the rest of the song. You may need to do some fader riding to bring up the parts that play on their own, much like a conductor will bring out the parts that need to be heard. YOU are the conductor when you mix, and you should guide the listener to what is important by making it the focus of attention (either by level, EQ, dynamic control, FX, or whatever it takes). Always be sure you (and your listeners) know what the HERO is at any given point in time. When the Rhodes plays by itself, it is the hero and needs to be loud, just like the lead instrument needs to be louder than the rest when it plays. You can also think of being a spotlight operator in a live show - then the solo stops, where does the spotlight need to shine? The answer: on the most important instrument at that point in the arrangement, which is wholly under your control.

Lastly, you're making music (in this example) in a genre that is not expected to be "loud" per se (IMO) - what are your reference tracks that you feel are similar to your music but that sound louder than your music?

[Creativemind]

Don't know how accurate this is but thought it might help.

[elMisse]

The more "transient" the sound, the softer it will sound compared to more "sustaining" sounds. This is because our ears "average" the sound level over time. So your track, which starts with hand claps and short Rhodes chord stabs, is going to need more level than something like a B3 pad or distorted guitar power chords.

Even looking at the waveform on soundcloud I can see plenty of parts that are not as loud as others. Again, a loud mix starts with a loud arrangement - two track playing on their own will not often sound as loud as a full band with drums and bass. The intro also isn't not using as much of the frequency spectrum as the rest of the song. You may need to do some fader riding to bring up the parts that play on their own, much like a conductor will bring out the parts that need to be heard. YOU are the conductor when you mix, and you should guide the listener to what is important by making it the focus of attention (either by level, EQ, dynamic control, FX, or whatever it takes). Always be sure you (and your listeners) know what the HERO is at any given point in time. When the Rhodes plays by itself, it is the hero and needs to be loud, just like the lead instrument needs to be louder than the rest when it plays. You can also think of being a spotlight operator in a live show - then the solo stops, where does the spotlight need to shine? The answer: on the most important instrument at that point in the arrangement, which is wholly under your control.

Lastly, you're making music (in this example) in a genre that is not expected to be "loud" per se (IMO) - what are your reference tracks that you feel are similar to your music but that sound louder than your music?

Ah, thanks for the HERO/fadertip... never thought about it that way or even done fader riding.

My musical vision was, that the actual A-part groove of this song should punch you in the chest like your everyday clubhit, regardless of what genre we put it in That's why I'm in this situation now.

EDIT: *your everyday 11/16 clubhit hahaha

[selig]

The more "transient" the sound, the softer it will sound compared to more "sustaining" sounds. This is because our ears "average" the sound level over time. So your track, which starts with hand claps and short Rhodes chord stabs, is going to need more level than something like a B3 pad or distorted guitar power chords.

Even looking at the waveform on soundcloud I can see plenty of parts that are not as loud as others. Again, a loud mix starts with a loud arrangement - two track playing on their own will not often sound as loud as a full band with drums and bass. The intro also isn't not using as much of the frequency spectrum as the rest of the song. You may need to do some fader riding to bring up the parts that play on their own, much like a conductor will bring out the parts that need to be heard. YOU are the conductor when you mix, and you should guide the listener to what is important by making it the focus of attention (either by level, EQ, dynamic control, FX, or whatever it takes). Always be sure you (and your listeners) know what the HERO is at any given point in time. When the Rhodes plays by itself, it is the hero and needs to be loud, just like the lead instrument needs to be louder than the rest when it plays. You can also think of being a spotlight operator in a live show - then the solo stops, where does the spotlight need to shine? The answer: on the most important instrument at that point in the arrangement, which is wholly under your control.

Lastly, you're making music (in this example) in a genre that is not expected to be "loud" per se (IMO) - what are your reference tracks that you feel are similar to your music but that sound louder than your music?

Ah, thanks for the HERO/fadertip... never thought about it that way or even done fader riding.

My musical vision was, that the actual A-part groove of this song should punch you in the chest like your everyday clubhit, regardless of what genre we put it in That's why I'm in this situation now.

EDIT: *your everyday 11/16 clubhit hahaha

Might I suggest you've chosen the wrong drum sounds, if not the wrong drum pattern, to achieve that effect (if I'm understanding you correctly). Your track is more "Return to Forever" than EDM IMO (…or more ECM than EDM?).

Again I have to ask what your mix references are when you compare your track to others…

[elMisse]

I would like it to differ from most fusion/jazz and be more about seriously powerful rhythmic figures and sounds that you can FEEL the same way that ... I don't know, some classic hiphop drum maschines? :/

The drumbeat is the thing in this one. Together with some perc and loops it creates a very cool thing in my ears. And the contrast, quite basic repeating chordprogressions and melodies.