Reason 10 - 4 CPU bars whilst not even playing

[tobypearce]

Screen Shot 2017-11-26 at 07.43.17.png (67.11 KiB) Viewed 3350 times

There has always been a bit of this in Reason but it seems to have got worse in Reason 10. This probably isn't Propellerheads fault as such - just that some VSTs are badly behaved and suck cpu cycles even when not in use.

Still - perhaps Props could do something about this, such as by having Reason know whether a vst is actually in use (and if the track is stopped I can't see how they can be), and shutting it down temporarily.

Better yet, I think we now need proper freeze tracks. (Bounce in place is not the same.)

[Ahornberg]

What's in your rack?

[tobypearce]

It's quite a big project.
I've been through it this morning and Softube's reverb (RE version) is a prime culprit. It seems to suck juice even when it's just sitting in the rack doing nothing!

[tumar]

I had this in R8 too. Huge project exported to old Macbook Pro (Core2Duo). Just opened project killed CPU, even without playing.

[motuscott]

Apple seems to have abandoned the artists for the phone people
Prolly a smart business move
So time for a new lappy and it's not going to be a mac...

[Aquila]

It's quite a big project.
I've been through it this morning and Softube's reverb (RE version) is a prime culprit. It seems to suck juice even when it's just sitting in the rack doing nothing!

Reverbs are notorious for CPU usage as they're technically always processing incoming audio, even if it's silent.

[Ahornberg]

It's quite a big project.
I've been through it this morning and Softube's reverb (RE version) is a prime culprit. It seems to suck juice even when it's just sitting in the rack doing nothing!

Reverbs are notorious for CPU usage as they're technically always processing incoming audio, even if it's silent.

... the sound of silence

[AttenuationHz]

Sample Rate? Thats 6 bars btw

[33db]

Apple seems to have abandoned the artists for the phone people
Prolly a smart business move
So time for a new lappy and it's not going to be a mac...

I agree I moved to WIndows on a Thinkpad P71,.

For the OP Softubes reverb is a CPU hog for me too, but currently my problem is the VST Exhale (Output) which in a 4 track song is pegging the meter.
Didn't reason at one time have freeze tracks?

[miscend]

Apple seems to have abandoned the artists for the phone people
Prolly a smart business move
So time for a new lappy and it's not going to be a mac...

I agree I moved to WIndows on a Thinkpad P71,.

For the OP Softubes reverb is a CPU hog for me too, but currently my problem is the VST Exhale (Output) which in a 4 track song is pegging the meter.
Didn't reason at one time have freeze tracks?

Reason has never had freeze. It didn’t need it until they introduced RE and VST. The work around is to render to track.

[antic604]

One of the advantages of VST3 format is that those plugins - supposedly - stop processing if there's no signal coming in or out.

I don't know how well that works, but hopefully Props implement support for the new standard in nearest future?

Out of interest, does the CPU utilisation goes much higher when the track is actually playing? I've seen the same behaviour with Live 9 (even just using native devices), whereas Bitwig seems to be somewhat smarter, as it clearly hibernates the unused devices - it's visible in a mixer via a "moon" icons on tracks Audio11, FX1, 808CL:

[O1B]

Im guessing there's more to that picture you posted.

What does the 473 stand for if you don't mind?
And you're still looping Bar 1 - 9? well into a 'song', as you say.

Right now, I'd assume you have there a 'Song File' with Loads of REs and VSTS, to get those 4 bars.
Without the full/truthful picture, it's hard to get a handle on the solution.

I sure that old files can slow the computer down. But, there's usually, a nice, easy, simple reason - and solution.

Screen Shot 2017-11-26 at 07.43.17.png

There has always been a bit of this in Reason but it seems to have got worse in Reason 10. This probably isn't Propellerheads fault as such - just that some VSTs are badly behaved and suck cpu cycles even when not in use.

Still - perhaps Props could do something about this, such as by having Reason know whether a vst is actually in use (and if the track is stopped I can't see how they can be), and shutting it down temporarily.

Better yet, I think we now need proper freeze tracks. (Bounce in place is not the same.)

[O1B]

Im guessing there's more to that picture you posted.

What does the 473 stand for if you don't mind?
And you're still looping Bar 1 - 9? well into a 'song', as you say.

Right now, I'd assume you have there a 'Song File' with Loads of REs and VSTS, to get those 4 bars.
Without the full/truthful picture, it's hard to get a handle on the solution.

I'm sure that old files can slow the computer down. But, there's usually, a nice, easy, simple reason - and solution.

Screen Shot 2017-11-26 at 07.43.17.png

There has always been a bit of this in Reason but it seems to have got worse in Reason 10. This probably isn't Propellerheads fault as such - just that some VSTs are badly behaved and suck cpu cycles even when not in use.

Still - perhaps Props could do something about this, such as by having Reason know whether a vst is actually in use (and if the track is stopped I can't see how they can be), and shutting it down temporarily.

Better yet, I think we now need proper freeze tracks. (Bounce in place is not the same.)

[tobypearce]

Hi,

What the picture was showing was that even though the song was stopped, it's still eating up nearly all the CPU power.

[jlgrimes]

Apple seems to have abandoned the artists for the phone people
Prolly a smart business move
So time for a new lappy and it's not going to be a mac...

Probably not a smart business move. I bet Pro Audio guys (and Video/Photo guys) are a nice chunk of Apple's base. I'm sure they sell more phones now than Computers but the more folks go over to Windows, its got to hurt.

I'm thinking of my next Computers being Windows boxes as well but I probably got another year or so before I think about upgrading.


I have 3 Apple computers. 1 Mac Mini 2012, 1 Imac(2015), 1 MacBook Air (2014). The only one that I think is really underpowered is the Air. Its only a Dual Core and even plug-ins like Sylenth (which is pretty tame CPU wise) puts a bit of strain on it (using Ableton Live) (like 10-11%). Where as on the other computers its only 1-2%. That said the other CPUs are Quad Cores. Certain NI plugins like Polyplex barely runs one instance on the Air.

That said I use multiple DAWs (Live, Reason, Studio One, Reaper, Logic, Maschine). Reason right now has about the worse CPU performance but that said it is about just as bad on my Imac than Mac Book Air, but that is because I heard that Reason has an issue with Retina based Macs (which most high powered Macs are). IMO the ball is in both Reason and Apple's court to resolve that. I doubt with the money people are spending on high powered Macs for assurance that they will have a Music Computer with power and minimal issues, Props need to have something on their site saying Retina Based Macs are not recommended. I don't know whos side the issue is on (Both sides will probably say the other), but that is something needed to get done. That said I use several other programs on the Retina Based Mac. None seem to have graphics pops and clicks (Ableton, Studio One, Reaper, Logic, Maschine), so from the outside the problem seems to be on the Props end but it might not be the case as I know there are so many variables in programming with other programs you are comparing apples and oranges (and probably carrots).


But that said because of other reasons I'm thinking my next boxes will be Windows based.

[jlgrimes]

One of the advantages of VST3 format is that those plugins - supposedly - stop processing if there's no signal coming in or out.

I don't know how well that works, but hopefully Props implement support for the new standard in nearest future?

Out of interest, does the CPU utilisation goes much higher when the track is actually playing? I've seen the same behaviour with Live 9 (even just using native devices), whereas Bitwig seems to be somewhat smarter, as it clearly hibernates the unused devices - it's visible in a mixer via a "moon" icons on tracks Audio11, FX1, 808CL:

Live never was the most CPU efficient program but that said its engine tends to be rock solid (ie no pops and clicks) when not near its limits. Also on machines with good CPUs Quad Core i7s, Live tends to performs without a problem for me. I have no issues using plug-ins like Serum or Diva on Live with my Quad Core i7s (usually up to two instances). Also, it has Freeze which gets you back in business. Live only really is a pain if you have something less than a quad core i7 (or fairly old computer).

Reason definitely needs Track Freeze now with VSTs (and even Rack Extensions to be frank). I know there are probably some technical limitations but Live has them as well (can't freeze sidechained tracks but it is still useful as a good percentage of my tracks aren't sidechained anyways). Also the Retina issue is pretty bad as simple things such as scrolling up and down the rack or opening Spectrum View causes Reason to pop and click even when not much is loaded.


I think the biggest issue is the graphics issue (performance wise), lack of freeze, and then the general VST performance.


I'm guessing whenever they do a GUI overhaul, they probably will fix the Retina issue but that could be a long time from now.

[sublunar]

Having recently upgraded to 10 from 8, I have noticed a very real increase in DSP by using the VSTs inside of Reason, as opposed to connected via EMI like I was doing before. I was using Arturia standalone synths. Now that they're *inside* of Reason, Reason performs worse. One thing I've found that helped was when I eradicated complex NNXT instruments from the project and replaced with similar RE's. The samples used up a lot of DSP in my experience. And I have noticed that GPU seems to affect DSP usage considerably in some cases. Simply scrolling the mouse through the project, on certain machines, caused significant DSP spikes.

[AttenuationHz]

Wonder if Virtual routing of VST's into Reason would give better performance until there is stone cold proof that Reason performs better when VST's are not loaded by Reason the pressure is off Propellerhead increasing VST performance. I never could get JACK to work anyone care to provide proof VST's are not the Issue?

[sublunar]

Wonder if Virtual routing of VST's into Reason would give better performance until there is stone cold proof that Reason performs better when VST's are not loaded by Reason the pressure is off Propellerhead increasing VST performance.

Like I mentioned above, on all of my machines, there's a noticeable difference in Reason's performance using the same VSTs in standalone mode and EMI vs loading them inside Reason. Not hard to understand why either, since Reason is kind of a walled environment. The more audio files inside the project, the bigger the project. Lots of other programs I use maintain very small project files no matter how many physical files they're referencing. It's clear in my experience that Reason is handling the processing when VSTs are inside of it, rather than when they are in standalone.

[Psuper]

Wonder if Virtual routing of VST's into Reason would give better performance until there is stone cold proof that Reason performs better when VST's are not loaded by Reason the pressure is off Propellerhead increasing VST performance. I never could get JACK to work anyone care to provide proof VST's are not the Issue?

I have stone cold proof, been using loopmidi forever with my VSTs, still do. Anyone can try it to see for themselves. https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html

[househoppin09]

The causes of VSTs using more DSP within Reason than they do in other DAWs or standalone mode were just being discussed in the other thread here (viewtopic.php?p=367013).

As normen said in that thread:

...the thing is Reason runs ALL plugins at 64 samples buffer size, no matter what you set in the audio preferences. But the documentation you linked explains exactly why SOME plugins don't run very well in Reason - because they don't run well with 64 samples buffer size.

There is a Reason for the 64 samples - it allows for higher modulation frequencies for CV and parameters and Reason is based around that.