Softube Guitar Amp RE

[Yonatan]

I guess Vermilion and other stock devices (plus Softube amp) will cover all my needs. Just have to add a wah wah too. 
With bass I tried Kaussa´s Cereb...and I liked it a lot. And Softubes too...and even Line 6 is very useful
(and the only one I will miss of those two). But I will wait and also try the one by Develoop soon to be released.

[jfrichards]

...Just have to add a wah wah too...

Here's one:
http://www.reasontalk.com/post/free-xwa ... 1285825737

And here is Giles' Line6 Wha replacer:

[stratatonic]

I still haven't used the Bass Amp yet in any production - I like the Line 6 one better. While I did end up with some decent tones out of some of the Softube Amps, they took more tweaking than they should have. But I cannot stand that Rock Amp - what a useless waste. Awful farting sounds. Sound like crap, unless you throw in a few Screams in front to even it out. But you really shouldn't have to do that - it should sound passable without all the effects.

Yes, that is exactly what i am talking about.

I can see now, it was actually the Rock Amp, which provoked me to start this topic  

Cheers,
Franci

It was also similar comments that led me to create this track, featuring the infamous Rock Amp (no Screams were used, no awful farting sounds…but hey, these are the same types of comments fans of one amp brand say about another every day!):

nicely done selig. I started listening to the track more than the actual tone. That's really what it's all about isn't it? I don't particularly like Brian May's guitar tone, but when I listen to old Queen, I completely ignore it and focus on the music. Are you playing the Les Paul?

[stratatonic]

I still haven't used the Bass Amp yet in any production - I like the Line 6 one better. While I did end up with some decent tones out of some of the Softube Amps, they took more tweaking than they should have. But I cannot stand that Rock Amp - what a useless waste. Awful farting sounds. Sound like crap, unless you throw in a few Screams in front to even it out. But you really shouldn't have to do that - it should sound passable without all the effects.

Yes, that is exactly what i am talking about.

I can see now, it was actually the Rock Amp, which provoked me to start this topic  

Cheers,
Franci

You could try to get a decent Rock tone with just the Softube Amps.

But you'd have to use two Amps in parallel.

First Amp, use the Lead setting to access the Gain knob - which is nice - Power Amp gain lower and bypass the Cabinet.

Then go into the second Amp on the Rock setting and adjust accordingly - put the Gain down with Rock power amp higher. Don't bypass this cab.

This all assumes that the tone controls and power amp are completely different on all models, which you would assume is the case, being Softube.

[Yonatan]

For you who have tried and used different guitar/bass amp REs...
Do you use them all? Are there any reasons to have them all? 
Do they complement each other in some ways?

[ArcoZ]

Softube amps are useless for me.
I prefer Kuassa.

[jfrichards]

For you who have tried and used different guitar/bass amp REs...
Do you use them all? Are there any reasons to have them all? 
Do they complement each other in some ways?

Yes, yes, and yes.  After tweaking all of them in many directions I now know sort of what I'm looking for in a song and can find it most of the time with the amps and effects inside Reason.  I consider the guitar amps, cabinets and effects in Revival to be a serious contender also.  So now I use:

Vermilion
Creme (don't forget it has 3 Tube Screamers in it that go well with Vermilion and Softube)
Softube
Revival (the Marshall amps and cabs are spectacular.  The 4x12's and Leslie go with Vermilion nicely)
Line6 (great for some Tele sounds)
Stock guitar effects patches (they are usually set up for Line6, but you don't have to stick with the Line6 or any amp)
Straight in with minimal effects (some of my guitars sound magnificent with just an RV7000, which has 50 presets)

On rare occasions, I can't get what I need and set up an out-in loopback through my TC Electronic Impact Twin interface so I can use Amplitube (for Dual Showman, Princeton or Engl tones).  Also on rare occasions, I mic my Fender tube amps (yes, they're still better).

[Yonatan]

I can understand this better with the guitar amps, but how about the different bass amps now available? 
We have Line 6, Cerberus, Softube, and recently Sitbull. Any bass players reading?
Are some better at funk sound, rock, reggae, pop etc? Any experiences to share?
I know its about personal preferences but still interested to hear before I click the try button on Sitbull (only one left)
and decide what to buy. Any stock devices or other REs that works just equally good for a bass? 

[VNUprod]

Hey all, a nice read this thread.

I'm have the same feelings about sims needing a ton of tweaking before sounding accaptable. It just annoys me. I'm not that much of a clean tone guy, but I allways thought clean tones are kind of ok and easier to achieve. As soon as it goes into a really heavy direction I get a bit disappointed by all the sims I've tried. Softtube is no exception, although I liked the approach in general.

If you are intereested, here is a littel Heavy Tone demo I set up just after The ST Amps had been released. Tried some Layering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N47oJpG7N2Q

[VNUprod]

I can understand this better with the guitar amps, but how about the different bass amps now available? 
We have Line 6, Cerberus, Softube, and recently Sitbull. Any bass players reading?
Are some better at funk sound, rock, reggae, pop etc? Any experiences to share?
I know its about personal preferences but still interested to hear before I click the try button on Sitbull (only one left)
and decide what to buy. Any stock devices or other REs that works just equally good for a bass? 

For Bass I allways go with layering (e.g. lopassed) DI + X, with X being a parallel (e.g. hipassed) Track with Bass amp, or other distortion units etc. Sometimes I add a second hipassed parallel with unison like stuff. So IMO no Amp sim needed here to get a decent tone.

[Ocean of Waves]

And it would be great to have that Room cabinet without the room ambience. That Cabinet is superb, like a Vox 2x12 but with an ambience sound to it.

If I recall correctly you released a free combinator that somehow only had the ambience of the amp, used as a room verb. Isn't it possible to reverse that idea and only keep the Amp?

[Marco Raaphorst]

And it would be great to have that Room cabinet without the room ambience. That Cabinet is superb, like a Vox 2x12 but with an ambience sound to it.

If I recall correctly you released a free combinator that somehow only had the ambience of the amp, used as a room verb. Isn't it possible to reverse that idea and only keep the Amp?

By phase reversing you can filter out the mono sounds. But the other way around, I don't think it's possible.

The main issue with Amp is the Marshall model. Softube did a bad job on that one. Way too much compression. And in general these models have too much low-end. I am not sure how Softube did it but I am suspecting their input signal was not right. (all presets included and bass heavy).

But with a few EQ tricks before and after the Amp you can get a get sound with it.

[Yonatan]

I have not heard much about the Softube bass amp sim. The guitar amp sim seems to be well used. 
So now comes another question about these two amp sims:

Have any of you yet found any other creative use of these? Can they warm up vocals? Piano? Brass? Synths? Drums?
I remember that I had hoped so when I tested them when first came out, but I did miss some fine tuning like Dry/Wet-knobs
and some more ways to tweak the amps and cabinets, but I really didnt gave enough time to go deeper with them.

What are your opinions, thoughts and experiences when it comes to overall use?

[Concep]

I have not heard much about the Softube bass amp sim. The guitar amp sim seems to be well used. 
So now comes another question about these two amp sims:

Have any of you yet found any other creative use of these? Can they warm up vocals? Piano? Brass? Synths? Drums?
I remember that I had hoped so when I tested them when first came out, but I did miss some fine tuning like Dry/Wet-knobs
and some more ways to tweak the amps and cabinets, but I really didnt gave enough time to go deeper with them.

What are your opinions, thoughts and experiences when it comes to overall use?

If your goal is to warm up other instruments, look no further than Vermilion on the clean tone settings.  Works great for this.

[gak]

I have not heard much about the Softube bass amp sim.

For me personally, it's quite good. The key is I kill off/bypass the cab. This does have a more modern sound but it's clear and cuts w/o a ton of eq. But I did end up getting cerebrus as well as it's more flexible and can do better with getting a more knarly tone when needed. 

[miahluvdd]

For you who have tried and used different guitar/bass amp REs...
Do you use them all? Are there any reasons to have them all? 
Do they complement each other in some ways?

Yes, yes, and yes.  After tweaking all of them in many directions I now know sort of what I'm looking for in a song and can find it most of the time with the amps and effects inside Reason.  I consider the guitar amps, cabinets and effects in Revival to be a serious contender also.  So now I use:

Vermilion
Creme (don't forget it has 3 Tube Screamers in it that go well with Vermilion and Softube)
Softube
Revival (the Marshall amps and cabs are spectacular.  The 4x12's and Leslie go with Vermilion nicely)
Line6 (great for some Tele sounds)
Stock guitar effects patches (they are usually set up for Line6, but you don't have to stick with the Line6 or any amp)
Straight in with minimal effects (some of my guitars sound magnificent with just an RV7000, which has 50 presets)

On rare occasions, I can't get what I need and set up an out-in loopback through my TC Electronic Impact Twin interface so I can use Amplitube (for Dual Showman, Princeton or Engl tones).  Also on rare occasions, I mic my Fender tube amps (yes, they're still better).

I forget about the revival amps and cabs. After reading this, I went back and listened to the cabs by themselves for guitar and they do sound really great. Between the Kaussa stuff and revival, we have great cab options in a Reason.

I haven't used the Softube guitar amps in a track yet. I guess I need to play around and get them tweaked to my guitars. I have used the Softube bass amp though and love it.

[Yonatan]

Wait a minute... Revival!? You mean the brownred organ synth. Wow, I´ve got that one but have not yet used it for external processing.
So you use it for guitars via the audio input...must check that out. Please explain how you work with it for best combination.

I wish more REs had "audio in", Radical Keys would be nice with an audio input. 
"Audio in" opens up the platform so much more...

[chimp_spanner]

I think Kuassa Creme is my favourite so far (followed closely by Line 6 because I'm a POD kinda guy). It's so good for modern, sharp rhythm tones and handles low tunings really well.

One question though, and sorry if it's been addressed elsewhere, but what exactly is going to happen to the Line 6 amps in future updates? Will they remain for people who already have them or are they taking them out completely?

[Marco Raaphorst]

Yes, Revival is the bomb. The FX section is superb.

[jfrichards]

...what exactly is going to happen to the Line 6 amps in future updates?...

Reason will not include Line6 in version releases after Sept 2016.  We will have to use the current versions of Reason (R6, 7, or 8) to continue to use the Line6.  It will be easy to switch between older versions of Reason that include Line6 and upcoming versions that will only have the Softube, but the song files will not be compatible.  You'll probably get a piece of cardboard where the Line6 amp was.  It has been recommended to convert active song files using Line6 over to Kuassa or Softube or Revival.  There are free stock wah pedals available on ReasonTalk and in R8.

I personally recommend switching over to Kuassa, Softube and Revival as soon as possible so Sept 2016 doesn't knock you over.  The up side is that the alternatives to Line6 are much better in many ways (try all the patches in the Softube patch list, and Marco's $10 patch refill - very impressive).

One note regarding switching between version 9 or 10 that won't have Line6 and your current version:  If you wanted to take a song you wrote in R10 and open it in R7 to add Line6, it's gonna take a massive amount of individual track re-creation, moving dry wav tracks, effect patches, midi tracks, etc.  Probably the easiest would be to export your R10 to a wav file and open it in R7 to add the Line6, then export your R7 guitar track as wav and put it in your R10 song.  But I think you'll find the Kuassa, Softube and Revival options more attractive.  And as the time draws near, there will be dozens of guitarists who will work out direct substitute non-Line6 patches for the Line6 sounds.

Must have been an ugly little corporate divorce when Props and Yamaha/Steinberg/Line6 parted ways.  I wonder if they even let Ernst talk.

[Yonatan]

Well, it was not totally by surprise about the Line 6 amps as they stayed the same the whole time. I had expected that when they first introduced, it would develop in partnership, that it was just the beginning, but it never did. It was the same version and no new amp sims added. So for me, I am only quite glad to get rid of those completly. But I understand how ppl with lots of those in their projects may feel. And the bass amp had some usefullness. The guitar amp was lacking IMO but as always, with enough tweaking and combinations with other devices, most things can be made to fit well in a mix, just some extra work. 

While talking about work-flow. I find it funny how I often may get bored if something sounds too perfect out of the box. This is a huge paradox, but no matter how much I love the NI instruments and Logic drumplayer, I am not that amused when things almost need no work at all. At the same time, when things are too much of a mess and it takes ages to just get something right, I am equally displeased as I at the end of the day want to be creative with music, and not an engineer geek that takes hours to create an ok sound. There is a balance there. Being served on a silverplate or have to go digging in the mine, both are uninspiring. One want to work, but with most of it being creative and not too mechanical and only routine. 
So I love REs that makes it easier with getting things done, freeing the mind to do other more creative things and lessens the routines.
But if all is made up just pushing some buttons and the music plays perfectly too easy, something is getting bored inside of me.
Thanks to Dr. Octorex I finally have started to enjoy the world of loops more and more, as it makes me feel as working with samples, giving me many ways colouring and changing the character of the sounds.

It´s a everchanging dynamic balance between Laziness and Workoholic when it comes to music production. Its funny and strange, but just accepting that as part of the musical dance.

Same with amp simulation. I ofcourse want it to sound great straight away, but more important is that the basic quality of it is so of such a good level that you can tweak it in many ways. So it dont have to sound as on a record right away, but it must be able to get there or wherever one wants to go.

I love the basic idea of Reason as having so many building blocks and so many combinations to take it further.
As long as PH gradually raise the quality level on all the building blocks and makes routine work easier,
It will survive and perhaps also prosper and blossom more and more.    
  

[normen]

It was the same version and no new amp sims added.

Uhm, in case you didn't know, if you had PodFarm as a plugin unlocked on an iLok or connected a Line6 interface with unlocked amp sims to your computer you could use them in Reason as well. (Or rather you still can - until 2016)

[devoloop]

Rhino Analogue Distortion Module preview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiQKx-M ... e=youtu.be
 
(GUI will be totally enhanced, new features and controls will be added... give an ear to the sound instead )

[normen]

Rhino Analogue Distortion Module preview
(GUI will be totally enhanced, new features and controls will be added... give an ear to the sound instead )

Sounds very mellow given the fact that its played without a cab simulation.. Real distortion units are much more in your face when played DI.

[stratatonic]

It was the same version and no new amp sims added.

Uhm, in case you didn't know, if you had PodFarm as a plugin unlocked on an iLok or connected a Line6 interface with unlocked amp sims to your computer you could use them in Reason as well. (Or rather you still can - until 2016)

Would be nice if Propellerhead created a red and a black RE that would simply be a gateway out - to external Line 6 stuff. No logos. Folks that bought Line 6 software/hardware on faith could still access their purchased amps/cabs/FX.
That said, the whole Line 6 / Reason twinning was somewhat awkward - and I tended to just record wet onto an audio track whenever I did get around to using external Line 6 stuff.