POLL: VST3 or QOL Priority? What would you have rather seen first?
- stratatonic
- Posts: 1526
- Joined: 15 Jan 2015
- Location: CANADA
Oh! It's another let's compare a car with a DAW analogy again!DaveyG wrote: ↑08 Sep 2021It's like saying "Do you want Ford to offer a 2 litre engine option or do you want improvements to the driving experience?" One is specific, the other is vague. One person might imagine the latter means sports suspension and racing seats, another might think about a better turning circle and an iPhone interface.stratatonic wrote: ↑08 Sep 2021
I was just giving examples of QOL, in case it wasn't totally clear. It's simple (though I maybe could have worded the poll question slightly differently and asked "what would you rather have seen first?")
Maybe I still can - without changing out the poll numbers.
It's more like, VST2.4 is regular filament headlights and VST3 are LED
What would you rather have first? LED lights or some QOL enhancements to your ReasonMobile, like:
Mirrors - so you don't have to keep turning your head backwards
Brakelights - so you don't have to start slowing down kilometres ahead in fear of getting rammed from behind
Door Handles - so you don't have to leave the window open all the time and reach inside to open the door
The ReasonMobile will still get you from point A to B, but better to have those few simple QOL enhancements for a better all-round driving experience than to get the newer LED headlights. More so if you don't even drive at night...
- stratatonic
- Posts: 1526
- Joined: 15 Jan 2015
- Location: CANADA
Under investigation, bro
----
Looks like the poll numbers show 93% to 7% for QOL improvements once you take out Reason Studio employees and joeylukc's vote out of the equation...
In my case that specific QOL future will win because I do not use VST ever therefor even VST3 is individual so if the pool said VST3 yes or no? I would just vote no
I guess OP has addressed a contraversial argument. To which I would rather see RS start from ground zero and work their way up.
I don't see VST3 as critical, but that's coming from a place of not really using VSTs in the first place. This poll proves that some think differently.
Regardless, VST3 sounds like a major endeavour. Where as small things like adding numbers to the rack mix channel seems like quite a simple fix. Or peak metering for mix channels for that matter.
RS needs to keep up with the competition, in their fun and inspiring way. Right now, from chatting to my peers, is that people get into something for the aspiration of it - being a serious endeavour in their lives. In that way, software that limits it's capability only serves to limit the user.
I believe RS needs to - somehow - cater towards the more practical and technical side involved in this craft. Not just the newcomer.
I don't see VST3 as critical, but that's coming from a place of not really using VSTs in the first place. This poll proves that some think differently.
Regardless, VST3 sounds like a major endeavour. Where as small things like adding numbers to the rack mix channel seems like quite a simple fix. Or peak metering for mix channels for that matter.
RS needs to keep up with the competition, in their fun and inspiring way. Right now, from chatting to my peers, is that people get into something for the aspiration of it - being a serious endeavour in their lives. In that way, software that limits it's capability only serves to limit the user.
I believe RS needs to - somehow - cater towards the more practical and technical side involved in this craft. Not just the newcomer.
Get more Combinators at the deeplink website
I'm already using VST3 in Reason since I also own Patchwork, Unify, Element, Voltage Modular, etc. which all allow hosting VST3s in Reason.
- Faastwalker
- Posts: 2297
- Joined: 15 Jan 2015
- Location: NSW, Australia
I thought the same. I voted 2 because I want those things. I don't use many VST's at al. But there are one or two I'd like which are VST 3 only. It needs to be there in 2021 I think.Jackjackdaw wrote: ↑08 Sep 2021The VST 3 work has probably been mostly done already if they are so confident about when it's coming. So it's kind of a moot point. But yeah the other stuff would be better on balance.
Even though some of you don't use VSTs you should consider the importance of this feature for meeting the expectations of potential new customers. Without it, many people will not even consider Reason becasue of lacking VST support. In fact, they will laugh at it and say "they can't be serious".
As mentioned by others, the poll is flawed and useless though.
As mentioned by others, the poll is flawed and useless though.
even if that means I won't get want I want? I'm being selfish here but think about it why should it be important to me that RS gets new customers at the expanse of me not getting futures I will use?Arrant wrote: ↑12 Sep 2021Even though some of you don't use VSTs you should consider the importance of this feature for meeting the expectations of potential new customers. Without it, many people will not even consider Reason because of lacking VST support. In fact, they will laugh at it and say "they can't be serious".
As mentioned by others, the poll is flawed and useless though.
Sure you'd say more customers more money to develop the software, but wouldn't that at the same time bring more people with different wish lists?
I'm all for more customers anyway because it guaranties that I can use reason in many years from now, but more users won't guaranty I'll get any workflow futures for me.
- StephenHutchinson
- Posts: 470
- Joined: 27 Sep 2019
- Contact:
Well since in the past few days, the vast majority of my VSTs (instrument and effects) no longer load in reason and in fact hang Reason, I went with QOL. This is on my MacBook Air which had been running smoothly as of the official release but now has made using Reason 12 on my preferred platform a no go. Thankfully I do have a killer PC which does load most VSTs but there are some that also hang.
For any serious work, like many people here seem to be doing, I'm going to have to resort to going back to Reason 11 or RRP inside of Bitwig 4, until all this is worked out. I guess I can gas up R12 if I want to play with Mimic but at this point, probably better to just wait till the bug fixes are in.
For any serious work, like many people here seem to be doing, I'm going to have to resort to going back to Reason 11 or RRP inside of Bitwig 4, until all this is worked out. I guess I can gas up R12 if I want to play with Mimic but at this point, probably better to just wait till the bug fixes are in.
Reason User Since Version 1.0
Sound Design & Music Content Creation
Sound Dimension :: https://www.sounddimension.io
Sound Design & Music Content Creation
Sound Dimension :: https://www.sounddimension.io
How sad this?
vst3 is arguably the basis of modern daws. It's a feature they should have already created in order to run a daw business.
Begging between a feature that should have already been included in reason 11 and a feature that should have come out with the release of reason 12...
vst3 is arguably the basis of modern daws. It's a feature they should have already created in order to run a daw business.
Begging between a feature that should have already been included in reason 11 and a feature that should have come out with the release of reason 12...
but some of these features you say should have come with 12 are said to be so basic that they should have been added in Reason 6exxx wrote: ↑12 Sep 2021How sad this?
vst3 is arguably the basis of modern daws. It's a feature they should have already created in order to run a daw business.
Begging between a feature that should have already been included in reason 11 and a feature that should have come out with the release of reason 12...
VST3 was introduced in 2008.exxx wrote: ↑12 Sep 2021How sad this?
vst3 is arguably the basis of modern daws. It's a feature they should have already created in order to run a daw business.
Begging between a feature that should have already been included in reason 11 and a feature that should have come out with the release of reason 12...
Ableton Live was introduced 2001.
Live didn't add VST3 support until 2019.
So it took them roughly 11 years to add VST3 support while being a VST host.
I don't know the story with other DAWs, but Reason only adopted VST a few years ago.
And while others argue they'd rather continue to put VST3 support on the back burner, I disagree and say, bring it on please!
That's an inappropriate explanation.joeyluck wrote: ↑13 Sep 2021VST3 was introduced in 2008.exxx wrote: ↑12 Sep 2021How sad this?
vst3 is arguably the basis of modern daws. It's a feature they should have already created in order to run a daw business.
Begging between a feature that should have already been included in reason 11 and a feature that should have come out with the release of reason 12...
Ableton Live was introduced 2001.
Live didn't add VST3 support until 2019.
So it took them roughly 11 years to add VST3 support while being a VST host.
I don't know the story with other DAWs, but Reason only adopted VST a few years ago.
And while others argue they'd rather continue to put VST3 support on the back burner, I disagree and say, bring it on please!
If you're a Reason's employee, I can understand.
From around 2019 and 2020, VST3 has been expanded in earnest, and many DAWs also support MPE. Don't you know when a particular technology will expand to the market at some point? Even Reason Rack came out in vst3
Several VSTs around that time were only available as VST3. why? It is now an environment that the DAWs in the market will accept. It was recognized as a basic feature of a common DAW.
The reality and facts are sometimes a bit different, than you might think.exxx wrote: ↑13 Sep 2021That's an inappropriate explanation.joeyluck wrote: ↑13 Sep 2021
VST3 was introduced in 2008.
Ableton Live was introduced 2001.
Live didn't add VST3 support until 2019.
So it took them roughly 11 years to add VST3 support while being a VST host.
I don't know the story with other DAWs, but Reason only adopted VST a few years ago.
And while others argue they'd rather continue to put VST3 support on the back burner, I disagree and say, bring it on please!
If you're a Reason's employee, I can understand.
From around 2019 and 2020, VST3 has been expanded in earnest, and many DAWs also support MPE. Don't you know when a particular technology will expand to the market at some point? Even Reason Rack came out in vst3
Several VSTs around that time were only available as VST3. why? It is now an environment that the DAWs in the market will accept. It was recognized as a basic feature of a common DAW.
The VST implementation in Reason was quite old, and at the time of release just added to the code and introduced a lot of problems which required a rewrite of the audio engine. The result took some time and finally the audio processing for VSTs was as fast as in other DAWs and even RE were up to 30% faster. So in fact, the code for VST in Reason was not new.
VST2 was deprecated and it was disallowed to create new plugins using this API. All new plugins MUST use VST3, that is why the RRP was released ONLY as VST3.
And creating a plugin in VST3 is still something different that creating support for that format in a DAW. Its the complete opposite and probably requires a lot of adjustments in the audio engine again.
What might be a simple task for you, can be a big task for the developers. Its like you say "its easy to build just the house", but in reality you need to build all tools, create infrastructure, educate ppl, create vehicles, you need suppliers, and so on...
Reason12, Win10
As vst 3 is already on the roadmap I hope they also add vst2 midi at the same time. It would be good for users to have full vst implementation. Reason can then concentrate on the many qol suggestions in the roadmap thread. Considering January is the date I am assuming they are well on the way with this.
- Creativemind
- Posts: 4899
- Joined: 17 Jan 2015
- Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
They've already stated they're working on vst 3 so I don't understand the question lol!
I would prefer QOL things first but both would be ideal. As someone stated before, they should've started working on vst 3 as soon as they released vst. Sounds logical to me. 9.5 with vst support was released in May 2017 so if it took a year it would've been May 2018. I do recall though, there was an optimisation issue with vst at the beginning which took a good 6 months to iron out so that got in the way but vst 3 should've certainly been in the Reason 10 cycle.
I would prefer QOL things first but both would be ideal. As someone stated before, they should've started working on vst 3 as soon as they released vst. Sounds logical to me. 9.5 with vst support was released in May 2017 so if it took a year it would've been May 2018. I do recall though, there was an optimisation issue with vst at the beginning which took a good 6 months to iron out so that got in the way but vst 3 should've certainly been in the Reason 10 cycle.
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
Of course it will be different. But you are a consumer. I am a little puzzled that I feel the need to sympathize and advocate for DAW development.Loque wrote: ↑13 Sep 2021The reality and facts are sometimes a bit different, than you might think.exxx wrote: ↑13 Sep 2021
That's an inappropriate explanation.
If you're a Reason's employee, I can understand.
From around 2019 and 2020, VST3 has been expanded in earnest, and many DAWs also support MPE. Don't you know when a particular technology will expand to the market at some point? Even Reason Rack came out in vst3
Several VSTs around that time were only available as VST3. why? It is now an environment that the DAWs in the market will accept. It was recognized as a basic feature of a common DAW.
The VST implementation in Reason was quite old, and at the time of release just added to the code and introduced a lot of problems which required a rewrite of the audio engine. The result took some time and finally the audio processing for VSTs was as fast as in other DAWs and even RE were up to 30% faster. So in fact, the code for VST in Reason was not new.
VST2 was deprecated and it was disallowed to create new plugins using this API. All new plugins MUST use VST3, that is why the RRP was released ONLY as VST3.
And creating a plugin in VST3 is still something different that creating support for that format in a DAW. Its the complete opposite and probably requires a lot of adjustments in the audio engine again.
What might be a simple task for you, can be a big task for the developers. Its like you say "its easy to build just the house", but in reality you need to build all tools, create infrastructure, educate ppl, create vehicles, you need suppliers, and so on...
If you sympathize with and worry about the difficulties of other consumer goods businesses, it might be understood as your inclination.
I am also a professional in a field other than other music.
But I do not pass on the complexity of my job to the consumer.
Because that's my job and it's something I need to be good at.
It was just an explanation as to why it takes time. Ableton took 11 years between VST3 being released and them adding VST3 support, all while being a VST host the entire time. If RS makes it in under 11 years from their introduction of VST support, they're goodexxx wrote: ↑13 Sep 2021Of course it will be different. But you are a consumer. I am a little puzzled that I feel the need to sympathize and advocate for DAW development.Loque wrote: ↑13 Sep 2021
The reality and facts are sometimes a bit different, than you might think.
The VST implementation in Reason was quite old, and at the time of release just added to the code and introduced a lot of problems which required a rewrite of the audio engine. The result took some time and finally the audio processing for VSTs was as fast as in other DAWs and even RE were up to 30% faster. So in fact, the code for VST in Reason was not new.
VST2 was deprecated and it was disallowed to create new plugins using this API. All new plugins MUST use VST3, that is why the RRP was released ONLY as VST3.
And creating a plugin in VST3 is still something different that creating support for that format in a DAW. Its the complete opposite and probably requires a lot of adjustments in the audio engine again.
What might be a simple task for you, can be a big task for the developers. Its like you say "its easy to build just the house", but in reality you need to build all tools, create infrastructure, educate ppl, create vehicles, you need suppliers, and so on...
If you sympathize with and worry about the difficulties of other consumer goods businesses, it might be understood as your inclination.
I am also a professional in a field other than other music.
But I do not pass on the complexity of my job to the consumer.
Because that's my job and it's something I need to be good at.
I guess I should add that Ableton had about 7 years experience with the VST format before the introduction of VST3 before they then took 11 years after that to add support for it.
Think I'm in the minority, but I'd equate VST3 to be QOL. It's not really a feature but rather an improvement.
I think it both are necessary and can be developed in parallel. Small improvements are something the Dev team can work on besides the introduction of VST3 support.
Budapest, Hungary
Reason 11 Suite
Lenovo ThinkPad e520 Win10x64 8GB RAM Intel i5-2520M 2,5-3,2 GHz and AMD 6630M with 1GB of memory.
more like a necessity, if they want to keep having a DAW. so, good news in that sense, I guess.
- adfielding
- Posts: 959
- Joined: 19 May 2015
- Contact:
Ditto. I'd take other QoL improvements over VST3 support for purely selfish reasons - but VST3 support is only going to become a larger issue as time goes by, so I totally understand the drive to get it in there now.
-
- Information
-
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: FGL, Trendiction [Bot], Yandex [Bot] and 2 guests