Where did the Propellerheads I/ we loved disappear to?

[wendylou]

Well holy crap - what the hell are they working on??!

I'll hazard a guess... something A.I. for creating music?

[moneykube]

RS needs AI ... nuff said

[dvdrtldg]

Here we go again. Isn't this exactly what you should be doing ....'make some fucking music' . The point you have to understand is that as pointless as you may deem the original post to be ...yours is even more so. So rather than keep posting it again and agian ...take your own advice and make some music.

Well, I wasn't talking to you, but thanks for your input

I will indeed go and make some music. You stay here and have a cry because the magic has gone out of your deep & intimate relationship with Reason Studios

[MrFigg]

Here we go again. Isn't this exactly what you should be doing ....'make some fucking music' . The point you have to understand is that as pointless as you may deem the original post to be ...yours is even more so. So rather than keep posting it again and agian ...take your own advice and make some music.

Well, I wasn't talking to you, but thanks for your input

I will indeed go and make some music. You stay here and have a cry because the magic has gone out of your deep & intimate relationship with Reason Studios

Glad to see you edited out the (what some may have perceived as) nastiness in your original reply to Reasonable Man even if you have retained some sarcasm.
Did you understand what I meant when I said I had written figuratively? I hope that may help you to see that I don’t and never have seen Propellerheads and the community as actual family or friends even if I have made some good friends here over the years. To repeat what I wrote previously there was a closeness between Propellerheads and their customers for a long time. A feeling of being together in the same way as you may perceive a cafe or restaurant as having a “family atmosphere”. Friendly. As I said initially I personally feel that RS has taken distance. May be the new direction suggested by the CEO. A few people who have replied here feel it and a few don’t. That’s all I was interested in finding out.

[Proboscis]

The Eurorack changed what people think about as modular today. Reason was created to recreate the experience of hardware in a way that no one under 40 cares about anymore. I have been using it since version 2 and have updated each time because I still like it, though it has never been my main DAW.

I just don't know who their new audience will be. It is really not as powerful as a DAW as other DAWs, and it is not as fun as a modular as other setups. Again, I like it personally, I just have trouble visualizing a young person finding it exciting. It is not really cheap, either, though I do think it is fairly priced.

Reason just feels very nostalgic to me now, which is fine because I am an old guy with memories of dying for the hardware it recreates. But what if no one shares that nostalgia?

As a guy who grew up with an obsession for collecting component hi-fi gear, and also into electric guitar/amps/pedals/4-tracks, when I started trying out DAWs, Reason was the one that had the biggest WOW factor, and despite not being able to record audio, I was hooked on the rack concept, and the seemingly limitless possibilities for connecting devices. 10 years on, I am only now getting more into CV, but regardless, seeing other complex combinator patches in action had me hooked.

But as for anyone 'under 40'... I truly don't know if this would be appealing. Pretty much the only thing that sets Reason apart from other DAWs is the rack concept. And if that doesn't connect with users of younger generations (why would it ? It's an emulation of very old electronics, and concepts that would be completely foreign to a Millennial), then there are better options for a DAW. Most others, really. And this is Propellerhead's point of failure, that everything is so far behind by comparison. I get asked from time to time whether I would recommend Reason for a first timer, and while I love it, I can't honestly respond with a recommendation of the product.

And as much as I enjoy the software, and try to work through the limitations, I feel like version 10 mark the end of me upgrading. That they have completely ignored the half-implemented functions of the Combinator for so many years despite now having 1,000 devices at our disposal, and the drip-feeding of bare basics as 'amazing new developments' (like automation curves), increasingly poor customer service, and a business that is now nothing more than an asset for some investment firm to profit from then dump onto another buyer when the price is right.... well I'm not interested in throwing my money their way in the hope that they'll change. I noticed earlier today on a Behringer youtube video about their modular rack, within 24 hours of publishing and the subsequent comments, they came back and said 'ok, we hear you, and this will be changed upon release'. And thats for a piece of Hardware ! All I seem to see from Propellerhead representatives is the very occasional blow-in comment, with very few assurances that anything that customers have been asking for, some cases for years, will ever be addressed.

All is not lost though. It turns out t he the version 11 release gave me a renewed optimism of sorts. It made me realize that there's so much potential with the products I already have, without spending a single dollar for such a weak set of feature additions. So thanks Propellerheads, I guess. I have gained more out of Reason since your last release by not upgrading.

[OverneathTheSkyBridg]

This thread kinda reads like a Craigslist "Missed Connections" post.

"I used to see you every day at the local supermarket. You have a big beard and your long hair up in a bun. We'd occasionally chat at the deli. But ever since the WalMart came to town now I barely ever see you. Where did you go?"

[MrFigg]

This thread kinda reads like a Craigslist "Missed Connections" post.

"I used to see you every day at the local supermarket. You have a big beard and your long hair up in a bun. We'd occasionally chat at the deli. But ever since the WalMart came to town now I barely ever see you. Where did you go?"

Perfect analogy. Nicely summarized. .

[$(username)]

So, bad news: these people are not your friends. But good news: they develop and sell excellent software, which you own.

The problem is: You don't own the software. RS has granted you the permission to run the software at their own will. If they want to then they can take away the software from you at any time. It's just a simple click in the license server admin console.

Of course they have no intention to do that but if the company goes belly up then the first things that are shut down are the authentication and download servers. If this happens then all your investments in Reason and all your REs are gone forever. You may be lucky that your currently authenticated system may still run for a while but a new installation will be impossible and if an operating system update kills Reason then you're screwed.

Of course people want to see Reason succeed and grow because they love to use the software. But there is also a financial aspect to that relationship that should not be underestimated. Many people have invested a lot of money into this ecosystem and if Reason Studios dies then the entire ecosystem is dead too.

[orthodox]

Of course people want to see Reason succeed and grow because they love to use the software. But there is also a financial aspect to that relationship that should not be underestimated. Many people have invested a lot of money into this ecosystem and if Reason Studios dies then the entire ecosystem is dead too.

That would be a sad situation. But what would you suggest to RS so that the users wouldn't lose their investment. Changing the authorization system (give the product away to pirates)?

[MrFigg]

Of course people want to see Reason succeed and grow because they love to use the software. But there is also a financial aspect to that relationship that should not be underestimated. Many people have invested a lot of money into this ecosystem and if Reason Studios dies then the entire ecosystem is dead too.

That would be a sad situation. But what would you suggest to RS so that the users wouldn't lose their investment. Changing the authorization system (give the product away to pirates)?

I may be wrong but I think with Cakewalk if you’ve got a log-in you can still go in and download/ reauthorize previous purchases on their server even though they are no longer in business.

[guitfnky]

This thread kinda reads like a Craigslist "Missed Connections" post.

"I used to see you every day at the local supermarket. You have a big beard and your long hair up in a bun. We'd occasionally chat at the deli. But ever since the WalMart came to town now I barely ever see you. Where did you go?"

Walmart, obviously.

[Oquasec]

Well put reaktor right next to Reason studios and try to convince me to switch.

[orthodox]

I may be wrong but I think with Cakewalk if you’ve got a log-in you can still go in and download/ reauthorize previous purchases on their server even though they are no longer in business.

That's good for legitimate users. But back when Cakewalk was paid for, it could be easily hacked just by entering an offline registration code. And now Cakewalk is dead and their product is distributed for free by Bandlab. Maybe that's due to their wrong previous policy?

EDIT: Aaah, sorry, maybe you were describing the possible emergency plan in case Reason Studios are gone?

[guitfnky]

@ dvdrtldg, I was writing figuratively.

wait, you mean you don’t invite Props/RS to family functions and have to drag uncle Ryan who’s been hitting the egg nog too hard, from his spot passed out under the Christmas tree, *every year*?

seriously, Harlin, get your s#!t together...

[guitfnky]

I may be wrong but I think with Cakewalk if you’ve got a log-in you can still go in and download/ reauthorize previous purchases on their server even though they are no longer in business.

That's good for legitimate users. But back when Cakewalk was paid for, it could be easily hacked just by entering an offline registration code. And now Cakewalk is dead and their product is distributed for free by Bandlab. Maybe that's due to their wrong previous policy?

pretty sure Sonar was discontinued because they were bought out and the new owner (Gibson, I believe) didn’t want to continue with it.

Cakewalk is alive and well, with a vibrant user community, and frequent interaction between users and devs on their forums.

[MrFigg]

@ dvdrtldg, I was writing figuratively.

wait, you mean you don’t invite Props/RS to family functions and have to drag uncle Ryan who’s been hitting the egg nog too hard, from his spot passed out under the Christmas tree, *every year*?

seriously, Harlin, get your s#!t together...

No...I usually get invited to their house. This year I'll be making my excuses though.

[MrFigg]

EDIT: Aaah, sorry, maybe you were describing the possible emergency plan in case Reason Studios are gone?

Yep! That's the one.

[Creativemind]

Not giving up because frankly I'm not up to the task of learning a new DAW. Explored Reaper when Reas11 came out and it's a wonderfully personalizable program, but too much for this old dog. Plus I've got no idea where all those AUs I used to own live. Diminishing returns, I got 'em.
Make Reason Great Again

I'm learning Reaper (slowly) at the moment. It's great but a lot to learn. The other let down for Reaper is no GUI on there devices. If they put GUI's on there devices and made them as good looking as Thor, ReDrum, Alligator and the BV512 Vocoder, it'd seriously improve it and enhance more people to use it I feel.

[motuscott]

Ostermilk I feel your pain, though I once swore to cease your existence, things haz changed.
Call home!

[EnochLight]

The problem is: You don't own the software. RS has granted you the permission to run the software at their own will.

Sort of (though that's a bit of an oversimplification of software licensing). That said, this is how virtually all software licensing has been since the dawn of selling software licenses, so not really any different than any other.

If they want to then they can take away the software from you at any time. It's just a simple click in the license server admin console.

Uh, no - not exactly.

Of course they have no intention to do that but if the company goes belly up then the first things that are shut down are the authentication and download servers.

No, this is pure conjecture. If the company goes belly up, you have no idea how they would handle shutting down their authentication and download servers, nor do you have any idea how they would handle EOL'ing Reason and/or any RE's you've bought.

If this happens then all your investments in Reason and all your REs are gone forever. You may be lucky that your currently authenticated system may still run for a while

Again, pure conjecture.

but a new installation will be impossible

And more conjecture. Fun fact: Syntrillium's Cool Edit Pro (which was bought by Adobe and turned into Audition) still installs and runs fine on my Windows 10 machine, and the last OS it supported was Windows XP.

and if an operating system update kills Reason then you're screwed.

I'll give you that, for sure (that is, if your purely conjectitory scenarios played out in a narrative that you fear.)

Of course people want to see Reason succeed and grow because they love to use the software. But there is also a financial aspect to that relationship that should not be underestimated. Many people have invested a lot of money into this ecosystem and if Reason Studios dies then the entire ecosystem is dead too.

Here's some of my own conjecture: perhaps a Bandlab scenario (see: Cakewalk Sonar) would play out instead?

[Reasonable man]

Here we go again. Isn't this exactly what you should be doing ....'make some fucking music' . The point you have to understand is that as pointless as you may deem the original post to be ...yours is even more so. So rather than keep posting it again and agian ...take your own advice and make some music.

Well, I wasn't talking to you, but thanks for your input

I will indeed go and make some music. You stay here and have a cry because the magic has gone out of your deep & intimate relationship with Reason Studios

Yea you are a piece of work . I believe in being critical of your own music . I've listened to what you hve on offer on your bandcampcamp page mr and yes you shoild be spending al hell of alot more time listening to the stuff your outputting and being a bit more crtical of it intstead of wasting your warrior fingertips on forum where you think peoplwe actually need your advice on anything

[motuscott]

The Eurorack changed what people think about as modular today. Reason was created to recreate the experience of hardware in a way that no one under 40 cares about anymore. I have been using it since version 2 and have updated each time because I still like it, though it has never been my main DAW.

I just don't know who their new audience will be. It is really not as powerful as a DAW as other DAWs, and it is not as fun as a modular as other setups. Again, I like it personally, I just have trouble visualizing a young person finding it exciting. It is not really cheap, either, though I do think it is fairly priced.

Reason just feels very nostalgic to me now, which is fine because I am an old guy with memories of dying for the hardware it recreates. But what if no one shares that nostalgia?

Well said
Now prepare to have history roll over your ass like it is so inclined to do.
But still I appreciate a well spoken human squeal... yer pal, motuscott

[Jackjackdaw]

I actually find 'old Reason' , subtractor, maelstrom, the back-of-the-rack etc... a bit cringy and dated. But Drum Sequencer, complex-1, Grain and Europa feel really fresh and well designed. It's the instant accessibility that draws me to Reason . It makes electronic music creation spontaneous.

[Proboscis]

I actually find 'old Reason' , subtractor, maelstrom, the back-of-the-rack etc... a bit cringy and dated. But Drum Sequencer, complex-1, Grain and Europa feel really fresh and well designed. It's the instant accessibility that draws me to Reason . It makes electronic music creation spontaneous.

I hear you . Earlier I was trying out an idea based on a member's forum post question, using ReDrum and Drum Sequencer player, and the switched to Rytmik. Comparing the two side by side and Redrum looks so ANCIENT, as does the 14:2 mixer (which I use in every project). The reality is that with the advancements in computing, smartphones etc, people are very attuned to visually pleasing things. The two devices I mentioned really look like old garbage. A complete GUI overhaul with hi-res graphics and a 'freshen up' of the designs (while maintaining exactly the same functionality, no more no less, not even a re-arrangement of parameters) is long overdue, but it is my belief that Propellerhead will NEVER go back to the devices of the past and do a damn thing. As far as I know, the only time they have was with the Mk2 reverb, and even then it was to allow IR loading, they did nothing to the GUI apart from change the color from purple to blue. I will keep using my beloved 14:2 but i'm a "Reason for Life' user. However, it doesn't leave a very good first impression for a new user who is trialling DAWs.

[EnochLight]

The Eurorack changed what people think about as modular today. Reason was created to recreate the experience of hardware in a way that no one under 40 cares about anymore.

Yet it was just mentioned earlier in this thread that some kids under "tween" were using Reason and preferred it to most other DAW.

I just don't know who their new audience will be. It is really not as powerful as a DAW as other DAWs, and it is not as fun as a modular as other setups.

Completely subjective opinion. While it's lacking features that many other DAW have, it's still incredibly inspirational. And as far as being fun compared to other modular setups? Which ones? I'd argue it's just as fun as anything out there.

Again, I like it personally, I just have trouble visualizing a young person finding it exciting.

Counterpoint: I have trouble visualizing a young person finding Ableton Live, Logic, Cubase, FL, Studio One, or Reaper exciting. None of them represent real virtual hardware and require users to think in extremely abstract ways.

Reason just feels very nostalgic to me now, which is fine because I am an old guy with memories of dying for the hardware it recreates. But what if no one shares that nostalgia?

I get that, and part of me identifies (seeing as how I'm a fellow "old guy with memories of dying for the hardware that it recreates"). But I'd submit that Reason Studios is no longer banking on nostalgia. They're banking on people who want to work with virtual emulations that closely resemble how stuff works in real studios. Regardless of age, that's a life skill that is necessary if you step through the door into a real recording studio with hardware.

That's who Reason Studios feels their product best represents, IMHO.

#conjecture