Offline authorization will be discontinued for R11 and earlier - This is serious

[WaxTrax]

it isn't a good thing for consumer freedom. Digital Rights Management is not your friend. You'll be telling me next you think Sony BMG were right to lace those 22 million CDs with DRM copy protection rootkits back in the day!

If you want to do some research on why this stuff matters, read these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defective_by_Design
https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v13/

I hate to keep stirring the pot on this one, but what you said makes me wonder: if this stuff matters so much to you, why are you even here? Why do you use Reason or any other closed-source software instead of exclusively open-source where you could fork it and maintain it yourself in perpetuity? You can't have it both ways all the time. Developers who wish to profit from their efforts deserve to protect it however they see fit. You, as the consumer, don't have to like or accept it. If you don't like it, then move on, while the rest of us enjoy the fruits we don't mind paying for. We don't need to hear you screaming on the way out.

[bxbrkrz]

it isn't a good thing for consumer freedom. Digital Rights Management is not your friend. You'll be telling me next you think Sony BMG were right to lace those 22 million CDs with DRM copy protection rootkits back in the day!

If you want to do some research on why this stuff matters, read these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defective_by_Design
https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v13/

I hate to keep stirring the pot on this one, but what you said makes me wonder: if this stuff matters so much to you, why are you even here? Why do you use Reason or any other closed-source software instead of exclusively open-source where you could fork it and maintain it yourself in perpetuity? You can't have it both ways all the time. Developers who wish to profit from their efforts deserve to protect it however they see fit. You, as the consumer, don't have to like or accept it. If you don't like it, then move on, while the rest of us enjoy the fruits we don't mind paying for. We don't need to hear you screaming on the way out.

"If you don't like it, then move on, while the rest of us enjoy the fruits we don't mind paying for. We don't need to hear you screaming on the way out."

Why is this statement useful for any potential future RS users reading this?

Very sad.

[bernardh]

I hate to keep stirring the pot on this one, but what you said makes me wonder: if this stuff matters so much to you, why are you even here? Why do you use Reason or any other closed-source software instead of exclusively open-source where you could fork it and maintain it yourself in perpetuity? You can't have it both ways all the time. Developers who wish to profit from their efforts deserve to protect it however they see fit. You, as the consumer, don't have to like or accept it. If you don't like it, then move on, while the rest of us enjoy the fruits we don't mind paying for. We don't need to hear you screaming on the way out.

I appreciate what you're saying but I got hooked on Reason many years ago and have never found any open-source software or a less copy-protected DAW comparable. In an ideal world I would prefer not to run software like this but I like making music with older versions of Reason and I do not like having the internet on my music computers at all. This means I am very impacted by this change. You may not be but I am and others like me may also be and may find some solace in what I've written on this forum.

Anyway, I've ordered a CmStick from Wibu using the link I previously provided. I'll be putting all my licenses on it before September 25th and then I won't be buying anything else from Reason Studios or the Reason Shop for the foreseeable. I don't know why my trying to work out the best way to mitigate this huge change or criticising how quickly this is happening, or remarking that such a provider/customer relationship is somewhat unhealthy upsets you so much that you need to retort with your "fruits we don't mind paying for" and "don't need to hear you screaming on the way out" remarks.

With this change RS will have you by the balls more than they've ever had you by the balls. If you're happy with that then fine but don't shoot the messenger for pointing it out and warning you just how little control this leaves you over your own licensed product in the future.

[QVprod]

Unlike the old codemeter login, there is no tick box to sign in every time. You could quite literally continue to use your computer in the way you describe here. Connect it when you need to update and unplug when you don’t. You only need to reach Reason’s servers once a year.

Only if I upgrade to Reason 12. For the older versions the login and authorisation process is being severely downgraded and with only 16 weeks notice provided by the company. You also become 100% dependent on Reason Studio's servers, so if they go down you can't use Reason. It's a single point of failure now for older customers. Also, if they decide that they only want Reason v12+ customers able to authenticate as part of a push to force us to upgrade, they will have the power to do this after September.

The way you wrote your comment , I thought you were on R12. As far as everything else, you must be unfamiliar with the Waves debacle that happened not too long ago when they tried to go subscription only. Didn’t last a week.

Servers going down permanently would affect everyone eventually. And for short outages, you’d just have to be really unlucky for your one time a year authorization to fall during one of those rare random periods. Support for old versions is only ending because they’re getting rid of codemeter which many users (including users of other software ) have had issues with.

[Billy+]

...

First, we do not ban anyone for it's opinion, except rules were violated. Your are currently walking again thin lines.

I did make it clear that i didn't want to upset / insult anyone so it would be real helpful if you could explain what forum rules i have broken or brushed against.

seriously i'm not trying to cause any "problems" with my access to ReasonTalk and would appreciate other moderators adding to this point of concern.

[Overtherainbow]

If you don't like it, then move on, while the rest of us enjoy the fruits we don't mind paying for. We don't need to hear you screaming on the way out.

Is that a royal "we" or are you representing some kind of coalition?

The issue for me is that I paid for one thing and now it's being retroactively and unilaterally changed without my consent. Very naughty.

Says here in their R11 Terms of Use (hats off to the PEOPLE who wrote it) that RS reserve the right to change the terms retroactively. But it also says that these Terms are governed by the Swedish law.

haha.png (93.53 KiB) Viewed 159886 times

Inconveniently for RS, the Swedish law is not entirely on their side in this regard.
Here's a read: https://www.scandinavianlaw.se/pdf/39-1.pdf

If a user can prove such an event causes them "damage" in undefined terms, a refund can be claimed. Jackpot if you hold a license that's been upgraded multiple times.
I, for instance, don't have internet coverage in my bathroom, which is easy to prove. I will therefore no longer be able to produce a banger on my R11 while I'm in there, towel-slapped by a muse, creative juices flowing and all that. I would reach out for my trusty Idea-Starter only for it to fail me in that precious moment of inspiration and, alas, my Muse abandons me on the bathroom floor in bitter tears of creative destitution and the ensuing mental ruin (not to mention the money wasted on scented candles!). And to think I could trust my bath-time production to R11 - the one reason I bought it for!

I do understand wanting to shake off Codemeter and the $5 on a licence, or whatever RS pay them, going forward and hence their recent changes to offline verification in 12.6 onward. I hate it, but at least I understand it. But taking away offline access retroactively for old licences is just no-frills coercion. It's dirty.

Is it ok to pirate a ship that you already own?

Piracy be a terrible crime, matey! But this 'ere situation makes one wonder if it's the same for buccaneerin'.

[joeyluck]

First, we do not ban anyone for it's opinion, except rules were violated. Your are currently walking again thin lines.

I did make it clear that i didn't want to upset / insult anyone so it would be real helpful if you could explain what forum rules i have broken or brushed against.

seriously i'm not trying to cause any "problems" with my access to ReasonTalk and would appreciate other moderators adding to this point of concern.

Your original title said "Offline authorization will be discontinued - This is serious". They introduced a new offline authorization for R12.
The title was adjusted to have context to better inform forum members and not be misleading (and to simply match the title of the article you are quoting). The "This is serious" wasn't removed. Nobody was trying to twist your words, but add context. Then I guess you had a big response to that and then there was an exchange. Let's all please be nice to one another.

Yes, it is correct that that Codemeter technically applies to R12.5 and lower, but it's understood that if you have R12, you have access to R12.6. The title also doesn't say "11.3.9 and earlier". It's just informing users that are on R11 and earlier that they could be affected.

Offline Authorization.png (21.54 KiB) Viewed 159883 times

[joeyluck]

Anyway, I've ordered a CmStick from Wibu using the link I previously provided. I'll be putting all my licenses on it before September 25th

If you want to have the ultimate Reason Ignition Key, have you considered upgrading to R12 and authorizing that? You would then have R12.5.3 authorized to the dongle with Combinator 2, Mimic, hi-res graphics, VST3, device filters, etc. And you would have access to Reason 12.6 and above to play with if you wanted to... Not trying to sell you on it, but just throwing it out there if you're really serious about trying to stick to the dongle for the long run, might as well make it the ultimate dongle?

[rcbuse]

Just went though the whole process to make sure my ignition key was still working. Got R11 + rack extensions running on fresh install of zero-network windows 10. Ignition key still working after being in a drawer for 5+ years.

[Popey]

This may be stupid question as I have no knowledge of coding or similar but if the new r12 authorisation allows authorisation up to a year would r11 users and below not also be able to do this?

Or are they different systems that r11 and below software will use that could not be easily patched to the new authorisation method.

[Jackjackdaw]

You can’t go into a coffee shop and buy one coffee and then sit there for ten years. They are going to need you to buy another coffee at some point.

[bernardh]

This may be stupid question as I have no knowledge of coding or similar but if the new r12 authorisation allows authorisation up to a year would r11 users and below not also be able to do this?

Or are they different systems that r11 and below software will use that could not be easily patched to the new authorisation method.

They wouldn't do this. They'd see it as a waste of money to do anything above and beyond for v11 users. Much better to make their lives inconvenient and make their product behave shoddier than it did when they bought it, so they are forced to buy something new to get back what they previously had.

[Heigen5]

An app idea. Make a mobile app that would work via bluetooth which would then renew an offline mode.

[reduk]

You can’t go into a coffee shop and buy one coffee and then sit there for ten years. They are going to need you to buy another coffee at some point.

totally agree, i'm afraid reason studio has to change its business model if it wants to survive

[EnochLight]

First off I was over 6 hours late to this information

And nobody from the ReasonTalk Team thought this topic was worth a mention,
Shame on you ALL.

"Shame" on us? @Billy+ - you need to be called out on this, and I'll type it in large font since that seems to be your thing. Please explain how in the hell the "ReasonTalk Team" is supposed to immediately be your personal front page news reporting source and post about everything immediately? We all do this voluntarily, without pay, and dude - most of us have a life outside of this damn forum, including full-time jobs and/or family and friends.

I'll wait.

[bxbrkrz]

An app idea. Make a mobile app that would work via bluetooth which would then renew an offline mode.

A phone has connection almost everywhere. Why not use that as a dongle with a RS app.

I thought it was a good solution myself, way back when

[Heigen5]

But would need to pay for it beauce the laptop net-dongle.

Heil the mobile towers.

[Loque]

An app idea. Make a mobile app that would work via bluetooth which would then renew an offline mode.

A phone has connection almost everywhere. Why not use that as a dongle with a RS app.

I thought it was a good solution myself, way back when

Why not just use the mobile phone as wifi hotspot? Mine works in bathroom too

[Heigen5]

I thought it was a good solution myself, way back when

Why not just use the mobile phone as wifi hotspot? Mine works in bathroom too

So that's where there seems to be 2 ways to do the same.

[QVprod]

This may be stupid question as I have no knowledge of coding or similar but if the new r12 authorisation allows authorisation up to a year would r11 users and below not also be able to do this?

Or are they different systems that r11 and below software will use that could not be easily patched to the new authorisation method.

It’s just incredibly unrealistic. They beta tested this past update. They would have to beta test and fix issues for a new system for old software in addition to the current version. Especially not when the old system will still work for the most part. Reason 12 has been out for almost 2 years now. Expecting updates to the previous version is just entitled.

[Popey]

This may be stupid question as I have no knowledge of coding or similar but if the new r12 authorisation allows authorisation up to a year would r11 users and below not also be able to do this?

Or are they different systems that r11 and below software will use that could not be easily patched to the new authorisation method.

It’s just incredibly unrealistic. They beta tested this past update. They would have to beta test and fix issues for a new system for old software in addition to the current version. Especially not when the old system will still work for the most part. Reason 12 has been out for almost 2 years now. Expecting updates to the previous version is just entitled.

Well in one part thanks for clarifying they will be two different authorisation systems, makes sense that it is not as easy as migrating others to the new system and we are not actually moving to a new method. I assume when I log online it will still look the same but go to some other server to check my licence if they are ending codemeter.

Not sure about the expecting upgrades and entitled dig though, I don't read my post that way and at no point stated these should be free or spend the time doing this.

[Aosta]

Stun us with Objekt, floor us with the sucker punch, timing is everything..
Reason Studios want to update their software
Why not just give everyone who wants it a free upgrade to R12 and be done with it? +

[bernardh]

You can’t go into a coffee shop and buy one coffee and then sit there for ten years. They are going to need you to buy another coffee at some point.

Whilst I do appreciate the analogy of a coffee shop, let's bear in mind that software isn't akin to a beverage that gets consumed. It's more like a tool that we purchase to utilise for a specific purpose. Picture buying a spanner that suddenly necessitates an additional fee just to turn it in a certain direction you previously could turn it no problem. That's the sort of inconvenience we're dealing with here. It's not about lingering in the coffee shop for ten years; it's about being able to wield the tool we paid for without having to endure an additional charge to restore fundamental functionality the tool had at purchase time.

[bxbrkrz]

I thought it was a good solution myself, way back when

Why not just use the mobile phone as wifi hotspot? Mine works in bathroom too

The context of the discussion was the use of a better dongle, rather a better replacement of it. Something physical you already have with you. My phone is good enough for banking, Google, Microsoft and Steam authentification. So some app you connect via Bluetooth or WiFi, but as a validation for a few seconds for that handshake.
It wasn't something they wanted to do, unfortunately.
If they do I hope RS will call it 'Figure Connect'

[fieldframe]

Just went though the whole process to make sure my ignition key was still working. Got R11 + rack extensions running on fresh install of zero-network windows 10. Ignition key still working after being in a drawer for 5+ years.

Is there a way to download previous versions of Reason? I have a boxed copy of 11, but it’s just a serial number inside, and my account page only has a link for 12 (which I bought digitally).

What I’d really like to do is install 12.5 (the last version with CodeMeter) on my old Intel Mac and then get the 12.5 license on my old Ignition Key.