Where did the Propellerheads I/ we loved disappear to?

[BRIGGS]

I blame Trump.

lolz!!!

[Chizmata]

I could write a lot here but I'm going to keep it short.
I'm a Reason User since 4 and I used my friend's Reason at his house since 1.0. To me, up until recently, Propellerheads always seemed like family. The user community lived in harmony with the company. A grassroots concern who genuinely cared. A place with people who could always be relied upon to help and encourage.
Now, to me at least, it feels as though "Reason Studios" has taken on an anonymity and distanced itself from the users. Daily we read on ReasonTalk of failed downloads, authorizer crashes, mistakes in the shop and unresponsiveness of support. Even when support finally answer, many customers are met with an unwillingness from RS to offer help.
Is it just me? I'm on 10.4. I won't move to another DAW. I love Reason but I honestly believe there'll be no more upgrading. Maybe I'm being dramatic but I feel as if I've lost something which I held dear and that is saddening.

welcome to capitalism i guess.

[RobBarnett]

I haven't upgraded from 10 to 11 and haven't spent a penny on Black Friday or Reason Season sales this year. Until I understand the Reason Studios strategy/roadmap/direction, I will no longer buy anything from Reason Studios.

My current prediction is that their strategy will be as follows;

1. Focus development on completing the Reason Rack Plugin (e.g. adding midi out)
2. Separate the Reason Rack Plugin as a product in its own right
3. Redevelop the Reason Sequencer and Mixer as another product in its own right (which will exclude the Rack as part of the program) - to be used with any VST (including the Reason Rack Plugin)

This could take years and only time will tell if my prediction is true. For now I'll carry on writing music in R10 (whilst exploring other DAWs)

[chaosroyale]

I never really understood the idea of "company loyalty/customer loyalty" anyway. Individuals like Mattias may be really cool guys, but they are not and never have been your friends, they are a business trying to make money.

During the last sale, some people seemed very entitled about expecting a discount because they are "loyal". As far as I can see a product is either worth the money or it isn't. Loyalty won't change that.

I've used Reason among various other hardware and software since version 3. I never felt the need to post on a Reason forum until the last few years, as they fall more and more behind the state of the art, and I can use Reasontalk as a place to vent my frustrations without annoying my friends and colleagues who all use Ableton, Cubase and Logic. (I just annoy you guys instead, sorry)

I am a little surprised to hear of slow/poor customer support: on the few occasions I have contacted them they were always pretty quick and good.

[EnochLight]

I could write a lot here but I'm going to keep it short.
I'm a Reason User since 4 and I used my friend's Reason at his house since 1.0. To me, up until recently, Propellerheads always seemed like family. The user community lived in harmony with the company. A grassroots concern who genuinely cared. A place with people who could always be relied upon to help and encourage.
Now, to me at least, it feels as though "Reason Studios" has taken on an anonymity and distanced itself from the users. Daily we read on ReasonTalk of failed downloads, authorizer crashes, mistakes in the shop and unresponsiveness of support. Even when support finally answer, many customers are met with an unwillingness from RS to offer help.
Is it just me? I'm on 10.4. I won't move to another DAW. I love Reason but I honestly believe there'll be no more upgrading. Maybe I'm being dramatic but I feel as if I've lost something which I held dear and that is saddening.

There certainly has been a change in Propellerheads/Reason Studios public persona since you were 9, but I don't know if your narrative is completely accurate. Back in the Reason 4 days, we never heard of any of the devs plans, aside from an occasional cryptic blog post. No comments were ever made on coming updates, no public statements, and certainly no teasing of coming features.

That is the polar opposite of how Reason Studios has been operating the past few years. We've been fed frequent teasers and even point blank mentions of coming things (as well as bug fixes). They have also released updates (both point and full) as well as new products (RE's) at a blistering pace since the 4.0 days.

I do think there is somewhat of a disconnect in their public persona, in the sense that prior to 9.0 and later, we saw a lot of YouTube video tutorials, Ryan and Mattias were literally communicating with users via live streams quite often, and forum participation was conducted through the PUF (though, again, Propellerheads rarely chimed in).

Mattias - the actual Product Manager - chimes in quite a bit here at RS, as well as over at KVR.

So maybe it's just "different"? If you were in fact the age of 9 when Reason 4 came out, maybe you've just grown up, and as people grow up, they perceive things very differently. I dunno.. just speculating.

As far as where Reason is headed, believe it or not I echo some of everyone's concerns. If standalone Reason doesn't get some love before Reason 12 (assuming there is a Reason 12), then I guess I'll eat crow and eventually move on to another DAW and take my last version of Reason 11 with me. Never thought I'd type those words, but... there they are.

[MrFigg]

I could write a lot here but I'm going to keep it short.
I'm a Reason User since 4 and I used my friend's Reason at his house since 1.0. To me, up until recently, Propellerheads always seemed like family. The user community lived in harmony with the company. A grassroots concern who genuinely cared. A place with people who could always be relied upon to help and encourage.
Now, to me at least, it feels as though "Reason Studios" has taken on an anonymity and distanced itself from the users. Daily we read on ReasonTalk of failed downloads, authorizer crashes, mistakes in the shop and unresponsiveness of support. Even when support finally answer, many customers are met with an unwillingness from RS to offer help.
Is it just me? I'm on 10.4. I won't move to another DAW. I love Reason but I honestly believe there'll be no more upgrading. Maybe I'm being dramatic but I feel as if I've lost something which I held dear and that is saddening.

There certainly has been a change in Propellerheads/Reason Studios public persona since you were 9, but I don't know if your narrative is completely accurate. Back in the Reason 4 days, we never heard of any of the devs plans, aside from an occasional cryptic blog post. No comments were ever made on coming updates, no public statements, and certainly no teasing of coming features.

That is the polar opposite of how Reason Studios has been operating the past few years. We've been fed frequent teasers and even point blank mentions of coming things (as well as bug fixes). They have also released updates (both point and full) as well as new products (RE's) at a blistering pace since the 4.0 days.

I do think there is somewhat of a disconnect in their public persona, in the sense that prior to 9.0 and later, we saw a lot of YouTube video tutorials, Ryan and Mattias were literally communicating with users via live streams quite often, and forum participation was conducted through the PUF (though, again, Propellerheads rarely chimed in).

Mattias - the actual Product Manager - chimes in quite a bit here at RS, as well as over at KVR.

So maybe it's just "different"? If you were in fact the age of 9 when Reason 4 came out, maybe you've just grown up, and as people grow up, they perceive things very differently. I dunno.. just speculating.

As far as where Reason is headed, believe it or not I echo some of everyone's concerns. If standalone Reason doesn't get some love before Reason 12 (assuming there is a Reason 12), then I guess I'll eat crow and eventually move on to another DAW and take my last version of Reason 11 with me. Never thought I'd type those words, but... there they are.

Nah Enoch. I was only kidding about being 9 because Loque suggested I was getting old and reminiscing about the good old days. I am in fact old and moany.
I totally understand what you’re saying. I just felt that at the time Reason felt more like a friendly family business who took care of their regulars and new customers alike with a smile on their faces and a hearty handshake. Sure, there were snide, backbiting fuckers on the PUF (some show up here now and again ahem no names) but overall the mood was friendly and cosey. Now it feels that they actually have become a “big business” and a lot of the decisions are pretty cynical. That’s fine. Absolutely. That’s “capitalism” as someone pointed out. I’m only saying that I’m saddened because it feels like we’ve lost a friend and gained a supplier.

[diminished]

I wanted to point out that said "capitalism" goes both ways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[reddust]

I'm not quite sure of a big change happening but in some way I also feel like Reason Studios is taking the same path as many other companies that just won't hide that in the deal that means offering a product and finding buyers the only thing they care about is getting the money.

I mean, we live in a world in which specialization becomes more and more accurate every day until the point I have the impression we all start working as if we were myopics and wouldn't see anything which is further away than the own nose... we all know the times when YouTube or soundcloud barely had adds if they had any, people were posting videos recorded with a bad camera in their messy bedrooms without any kind of visual make up.

Many of these companies have used a quite psychopathic way to gain customers showing their nicest face on the first days just to show their real face when the thing gets serious. My impression is that Reason Studios is taking a similar path, I don't know who's responsible of that because I'm not even sure that this is really happening but my impression is that. Because of many politics I'm seeing lately like how the "reward" system is implemented or how the last sales and updates came out.

I know big companies are like that and all little fishes want to become bigger ones, but many of them are acting like big fishes when they still are quite small. You only need to check how every app in the market now tries to sell you a subscription plan no matter if that really make sense for the buyer/user, the only important thing is to get their money and even hiding this doesn't seem to be important anymore. I do miss the good old days when the internet was a new thing and full of freedom and yes, I'm getting old, I know it xD

[guitfnky]

this

I wanted to point out that said "capitalism" goes both ways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

this

yes, it’s “just capitalism”, and yes, customer loyalty isn’t a tangible thing, but it’s a two-way street. RS should WANT customers to be loyal. those of us who have been/are have helped champion their products. I can say I convinced our band’s singer to buy Reason 7 or 8, and he’s updated all the way through 10, and bought a boatload of Rack Extensions along the way. they’ve made more money as a result of customer loyalty and love of their DAW than they otherwise would have.

we don’t want them to improve their software and to have a better customer service experience because we feel we’re owed anything—we want those things because we want to see them succeed, because that means they can keep making more of the types of products we want to see.

this whole “it’s good enough as it is” mentality makes no sense whatsoever. in that case, just keep using whatever version you’re on indefinitely, regardless of what new features they might add.

[orthodox]

Can anybody explain what exactly has happened? I've been a Reason user not for so long, about 8 yrs, and I have never felt myself being in any relationship with Propellerheads, neither close nor cold one. I love their product, and I may like or dislike where the development is going and how fast, but all that talk about distance between company and customer is beyond my understanding.

[dvdrtldg]

I never really understood the idea of "company loyalty/customer loyalty" anyway. Individuals like Mattias may be really cool guys, but they are not and never have been your friends, they are a business trying to make money.

During the last sale, some people seemed very entitled about expecting a discount because they are "loyal". As far as I can see a product is either worth the money or it isn't. Loyalty won't change that.

I've used Reason among various other hardware and software since version 3. I never felt the need to post on a Reason forum until the last few years, as they fall more and more behind the state of the art, and I can use Reasontalk as a place to vent my frustrations without annoying my friends and colleagues who all use Ableton, Cubase and Logic. (I just annoy you guys instead, sorry)

I am a little surprised to hear of slow/poor customer support: on the few occasions I have contacted them they were always pretty quick and good.

Agree 100% with this

Any "special relationship" someone might feel with a company is all in their head

You want fulfilling relationships and a feeling of being loved & appreciated? That's what family and friends are for, so work on that

I mean, sure, use Reason or don't use it. But all this personal butthurt is completely mystifying to me

[guitfnky]

Can anybody explain what exactly has happened? I've been a Reason user not for so long, about 8 yrs, and I have never felt myself being in any relationship with Propellerheads, neither close nor cold one. I love their product, and I may like or dislike where the development is going and how fast, but all that talk about distance between company and customer is beyond my understanding.

it’s probably different for everyone, but I think the bottom line is that for a lot of us, it seems like they’ve become less responsive to users than they used to be. that feeling comes from lots of different places. like MrFigg has said, the website and customer service issues are among them, but also their marketing decisions—the fact that they’re releasing a new version where the main focus is on other DAWs... it just doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence in their direction. I don’t think it’s necessarily about feeling connected directly to a company, or their representatives (though for some, that may be part of it).

[guitfnky]

I never really understood the idea of "company loyalty/customer loyalty" anyway. Individuals like Mattias may be really cool guys, but they are not and never have been your friends, they are a business trying to make money.

During the last sale, some people seemed very entitled about expecting a discount because they are "loyal". As far as I can see a product is either worth the money or it isn't. Loyalty won't change that.

I've used Reason among various other hardware and software since version 3. I never felt the need to post on a Reason forum until the last few years, as they fall more and more behind the state of the art, and I can use Reasontalk as a place to vent my frustrations without annoying my friends and colleagues who all use Ableton, Cubase and Logic. (I just annoy you guys instead, sorry)

I am a little surprised to hear of slow/poor customer support: on the few occasions I have contacted them they were always pretty quick and good.

Agree 100% with this

Any "special relationship" someone might feel with a company is all in their head

You want fulfilling relationships and a feeling of being loved & appreciated? That's what family and friends are for, so work on that

I mean, sure, use Reason or don't use it. But all this personal butthurt is completely mystifying to me

are you really trying to create an equivalency between someone’s relationship to a company (like it or not, we all have a relationship to Reason Studios—we use their products; we talk about them here) with their interpersonal relationships with actual human beings?

I mean, I’ve seen some absurd things on Reasontalk before, but that’s about as out there as I’ve ever heard.

[MrFigg]

I never really understood the idea of "company loyalty/customer loyalty" anyway. Individuals like Mattias may be really cool guys, but they are not and never have been your friends, they are a business trying to make money.

During the last sale, some people seemed very entitled about expecting a discount because they are "loyal". As far as I can see a product is either worth the money or it isn't. Loyalty won't change that.

I've used Reason among various other hardware and software since version 3. I never felt the need to post on a Reason forum until the last few years, as they fall more and more behind the state of the art, and I can use Reasontalk as a place to vent my frustrations without annoying my friends and colleagues who all use Ableton, Cubase and Logic. (I just annoy you guys instead, sorry)

I am a little surprised to hear of slow/poor customer support: on the few occasions I have contacted them they were always pretty quick and good.

Agree 100% with this

Any "special relationship" someone might feel with a company is all in their head

You want fulfilling relationships and a feeling of being loved & appreciated? That's what family and friends are for, so work on that

I mean, sure, use Reason or don't use it. But all this personal butthurt is completely mystifying to me

It doesn’t have anything to do with fulfilling relationships. It has to do with buying products and investing in a company who actually gives a fuck about it’s customers. The way I personally feel about it is that Propellerheads cared about its customers in the past (as well as their money of course) and now they ONLY care about their customers money. If you never felt it you never felt it.

[bxbrkrz]

Funny, I feel the late version of Props/RS cares more about us now, customers, than ever before.
If you are young and new to the platform be happy you've missed all the years of (some of) us begging Props for Midi out. Just that. Midi out was obviously implemented (I got the sysex sent to my padkontrol every time, no problem), but no way to play with my old hardware. Weird.

I get why: Reason kills hardware. 100% codes is the future, etc.

It is not a smart move for a company to die on a little hilltop and never adapt to change. They were smart to realize is and did some major changes. I can't regret the past when there were zero escapes from Reason. Years ago you could email a little file a few Kb big and your friend could play it back. That was before Re was a thing.

RS is still among the most complete and cheaper solution for a producer with little cash to do everything withing Reason.

We need to look forward.

[EnochLight]

It doesn’t have anything to do with fulfilling relationships. It has to do with buying products and investing in a company who actually gives a fuck about it’s customers. The way I personally feel about it is that Propellerheads cared about its customers in the past (as well as their money of course) and now they ONLY care about their customers money. If you never felt it you never felt it.

Counterpoint: if Reason Studios didn't care about their customers, they wouldn't offer free point updates (as they have since Reason appeared almost 20 years ago) and continue to add features in every major version. Your investment was 100% paid for the moment you bought the software.

I don't know why people think they stopped caring about their customers. Any and every company that wants to continue to sell something cares about their customers. I seriously doubt Reason Studios and their investors at Verdane feel any different about that relationship.

[diminished]

Anybody got an idea what this is about?

Code: Select all

https://twitter.com/reasonstudios/status/1202212294815604736

[MrFigg]

We need to look forward.

Sure. But...

[MrFigg]

It doesn’t have anything to do with fulfilling relationships. It has to do with buying products and investing in a company who actually gives a fuck about it’s customers. The way I personally feel about it is that Propellerheads cared about its customers in the past (as well as their money of course) and now they ONLY care about their customers money. If you never felt it you never felt it.

Counterpoint: if Reason Studios didn't care about their customers, they wouldn't offer free point updates (as they have since Reason appeared almost 20 years ago) and continue to add features in every major version. Your investment was 100% paid for the moment you bought the software.

I don't know why people think they stopped caring about their customers. Any and every company that wants to continue to sell something cares about their customers. I seriously doubt Reason Studios and their investors at Verdane feel any different about that relationship.

Sure. I’m not on here to argue with anyone or try to change anybody’s mind. I’m only stating how I feel personally. I’m not looking for anything extra from RS. I’m happy with my software and don’t regret one penny spent. I just wondered if anyone feels the same as me as regards a change in the customer/ company dynamic. Apparently some do and some don’t to a greater or lesser degree.

[zoidkirb]

Mattias seems like a really nice guy but I can understand him being very wary anytime he pops his head up on forums like these, Facebook, reddit etc as he invariably get inundated with a a flood of very reasonable requests (midi, vst, hd etc) .
Poor guy is forced to attempt to defend the indefendible on a constant basis, as if he was the architect of it all.

[rgdaniel]

I just wondered if anyone feels the same as me as regards a change in the customer/ company dynamic. Apparently some do and some don’t to a greater or lesser degree.

I do feel the difference. I'm just not sure how accurate my feeling is, or to what I should attribute it. Relationships change over time. Are Reason and I just in a bad place right now? Has the burning fire of our younger relationship just settled down into something less passionate, but still committed? Or have I become bitter about my own current decline in creative output, and I'm blaming it on Reason?

Jokey metaphors aside, the one area I do feel like the relationship has soured is with customer service/support, as has been noted elsewhere. I only have a small number of data points, but the trend, even if inconclusive, is not promising.

[diminished]

Mattias seems like a really nice guy but I can understand him being very wary anytime he pops his head up on forums like these, Facebook, reddit etc as he invariably get inundated with a a flood of very reasonable requests (midi, vst, hd etc) .
Poor guy is forced to attempt to defend the indefendible on a constant basis, as if he was the architect of it all.

Wise words right there.
Yet while it's worse these days for him, it's always been like that I think.

However, he's even been inactive on reddit for almost a month or so. Weird. I think there is a lot of shit going on behind the scenes we don't know about. I'm almost 100% certain that their support is terribly understaffed. My money is also on a bunch of internal conflicts within the company (pre- and post-Niklas mindsets).

[bxbrkrz]

We need to look forward.

Sure. But...

Moving forward, but with a solid foundation of what the past was in reality.

IMHO Cubase (What I used on multiple platforms) always felt like a tool. Reason felt like what Art could've been, but with codes. I don't know if what I am saying makes sense to you, but I think maybe this is why we are all so attached to the program. Maybe it was the case with the old school Props too?
It's hard to let your baby grow up and see it leave home, but it's for the best.

You can be happy now, or sad all the time about a future you have no control over.
Let go.
Enjoy life.

[SympatheticDissonanc]

Mattias seems like a really nice guy but I can understand him being very wary anytime he pops his head up on forums like these, Facebook, reddit etc as he invariably get inundated with a a flood of very reasonable requests (midi, vst, hd etc) .
Poor guy is forced to attempt to defend the indefendible on a constant basis, as if he was the architect of it all.

But he is the architect of it all. He has been since Reason 9.5. He's not been forced to do anything, he's chosen to do it the way he has, so don't feel pity for him that he has to justify his decision-making.

[pushedbutton]

I miss the good old days when the all we wanted was to unscrew more screws in the subtractor and pull the thing out of the rack.