I just checked and it is still "pending" - I'll ping them again and see if/how they plan to address this.
Umpf - does it sound worse than redrum in default?
- tobypearce
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Perhaps. But in that case I'd rather have it on the retro one (more 'retro'?) and have the club version snappy.
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One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
I have used Umpf for all my latest songs and they sounds great,
why is it a problem that Umpf sounds diffrent? I like the sound of Umpf, and is now my go to drum sampler.
Umpf is great for dance music
why is it a problem that Umpf sounds diffrent? I like the sound of Umpf, and is now my go to drum sampler.
Umpf is great for dance music
- tobypearce
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Good question nooomy.
Not a problem in itself that it sounds good
Removing transients in drum sounds isn't ideal though. I could understand it if the retro version did this, for some kind of warmer sound. But for the club version I'd have thought really tight transients were quite important. And weirdly, only the retro version has a transient shaper built in!
Not a problem in itself that it sounds good
Removing transients in drum sounds isn't ideal though. I could understand it if the retro version did this, for some kind of warmer sound. But for the club version I'd have thought really tight transients were quite important. And weirdly, only the retro version has a transient shaper built in!
https://onetrackperweek.com
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
- ProfessaKaos
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Any news or follow up on all this?
Yeah, it's almost been 3 years since this thread was posted. Umpf Retro bug ticket!
Not on my report (from 2019-06-19). I've pinged them again to see if they will pick this up. It has been ignored for close to 3 years. Reading through the comments on the report, no-one from PH/RS ever responded.
- EnochLight
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- integerpoet
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What prompted us to suppose different "devices" playing the same sample should null, anyway?
I mean, it's all software and so it's theoretically possible for them to null.
But does that mean they should? Wouldn't different models of hardware device have their own character?
I mean, it's all software and so it's theoretically possible for them to null.
But does that mean they should? Wouldn't different models of hardware device have their own character?
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I totally agree and it's probably the reason why it's not been seen as a bug.integerpoet wrote: ↑27 Mar 2022What prompted us to suppose different "devices" playing the same sample should null, anyway?
I mean, it's all software and so it's theoretically possible for them to null.
But does that mean they should? Wouldn't different models of hardware device have their own character?
The retro umpf is my go to drummer + drum seq player
Really nice stuff!
Really nice stuff!
- tobypearce
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Yes, that's got to be right: there's no reason why samplers should all sound the same and indeed it could be useful if they didn't.Billy+ wrote: ↑27 Mar 2022I totally agree and it's probably the reason why it's not been seen as a bug.integerpoet wrote: ↑27 Mar 2022What prompted us to suppose different "devices" playing the same sample should null, anyway?
I mean, it's all software and so it's theoretically possible for them to null.
But does that mean they should? Wouldn't different models of hardware device have their own character?
Still: it seems odd that the Club version, surely aimed at a modern sound, dulls the transient whereas the Retro version sounds sharper, with a more precise transient. Transients are important in a lot of modern types of dance music.
https://onetrackperweek.com
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
I think it's by design. I can see your thinking but in my mind, it is the reverse. Retro electro music usually has more dynamic range and livelier sounding drum machines with more transients. Modern music is often hyper compressed and thus ends up sounding more like a walled loop of sound than obvious peaks and troughs.tobypearce wrote: ↑04 Apr 2022Yes, that's got to be right: there's no reason why samplers should all sound the same and indeed it could be useful if they didn't.
Still: it seems odd that the Club version, surely aimed at a modern sound, dulls the transient whereas the Retro version sounds sharper, with a more precise transient. Transients are important in a lot of modern types of dance music.
I've found that Waves Trans-X plugin is really useful to put after a drum machine RE to modify the transient content. Give that a try as I highly doubt that Props/RS will ever revisit these devices now.
That may be an audio illusion, I can see no difference between the two Umpf machines compared to ReDrum/NNXT/Kong (Kong shown below the two Umpf devices):tobypearce wrote: ↑04 Apr 2022Yes, that's got to be right: there's no reason why samplers should all sound the same and indeed it could be useful if they didn't.
Still: it seems odd that the Club version, surely aimed at a modern sound, dulls the transient whereas the Retro version sounds sharper, with a more precise transient. Transients are important in a lot of modern types of dance music.
This is a square wave starting at full scale on the first sample, zoomed in all the way in Reason. In all other Reason samplers I listed above, this is recreated accurately. But the two Umpf devices have around a 1ms ramp up time. They look identical to me, but there's an easy way to avoid this and that's by padding the front of a sample by 1 ms which would never be noticed in real time. And even so, the audio or MIDI could be 'advanced' 1ms to accommodate.
STILL, why not a button to choose this behavior?
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- tobypearce
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That's why I love you, Selig.selig wrote: ↑04 Apr 2022That may be an audio illusion, I can see no difference between the two Umpf machines compared to ReDrum/NNXT/Kong (Kong shown below the two Umpf devices):tobypearce wrote: ↑04 Apr 2022
Yes, that's got to be right: there's no reason why samplers should all sound the same and indeed it could be useful if they didn't.
Still: it seems odd that the Club version, surely aimed at a modern sound, dulls the transient whereas the Retro version sounds sharper, with a more precise transient. Transients are important in a lot of modern types of dance music.
This is a square wave starting at full scale on the first sample, zoomed in all the way in Reason. In all other Reason samplers I listed above, this is recreated accurately. But the two Umpf devices have around a 1ms ramp up time. They look identical to me, but there's an easy way to avoid this and that's by padding the front of a sample by 1 ms which would never be noticed in real time. And even so, the audio or MIDI could be 'advanced' 1ms to accommodate.
STILL, why not a button to choose this behavior?
https://onetrackperweek.com
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
One year - 52 tracks - Electronic Dance Music
Perhaps it's a limitation of the tech that was used to implement Umpf or perhaps it was a design decision made to reduce clicks at the start of triggered samples which may have been crudely sliced?tobypearce wrote: ↑06 Apr 2022That's why I love you, Selig.selig wrote: ↑04 Apr 2022
That may be an audio illusion, I can see no difference between the two Umpf machines compared to ReDrum/NNXT/Kong (Kong shown below the two Umpf devices):
This is a square wave starting at full scale on the first sample, zoomed in all the way in Reason. In all other Reason samplers I listed above, this is recreated accurately. But the two Umpf devices have around a 1ms ramp up time. They look identical to me, but there's an easy way to avoid this and that's by padding the front of a sample by 1 ms which would never be noticed in real time. And even so, the audio or MIDI could be 'advanced' 1ms to accommodate.
STILL, why not a button to choose this behavior?
Either way, Waves Trans-X works well for me as a follow up device to tweak the transients of the drums and change the punchiness of the output. I never find I'm unhappy with the way the Umpf track sits in the mix once I've tweaked a little. I imagine Softube Shape, SPL Transient Designer or a plethora of other related plugins on the market would also do the job!
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